Sept. 5, 2020

Michigan's Woodstock: Sherwood Forest #20042

The story of Sherwood Forest (Davison, Michigan) is an improbable one that is part of Rock and Roll History. In the 1960's and 70's the popular Michigan music festival venue helped launch the careers of many of Michigan's emerging Rock and Roll Hall of Famers. Bob Seger, Stevie Wonder, Alice Cooper, Smokey Robinson & the Miracles, Ted Nugent, MC5, Sammie Hagar, REO Speedwagon, George Clinton, Blue Oyster Cult, Big Brother and the Holding Company, and Chuck Berry all performed at Sherwood Forest. Bob Seger and Stevie Wonder in particular played frequently at the venue. throughout the 1960's. Sherwood Forest attracted as many as 14,000 concertgoers for its festival-like events. It was a place more akin to Woodstock than the tin roof pavilions of today's era. Dean Sherwood, whose father Don with the help of his children and a unconventional promoter and djay, Peter C. Cavanaugh, turned his 200 acre dairy farm into a garden of eden, replete with picnic pavilions, a dance hall, an outdoor performance state, carnival rides and sleigh rides. The Sherwoods' developed a family venue that became the unlikely place where tens of thousands of young people gathered to enjoy a celebration of Wild Wednesdays and Super Sundays. They created a place for thousands of kids to gather for a $2.00 admission fee or $4.00 per vehicle. Those who attended these events were treated to emerging artists who honed their craft on the stages of Sherwood Forest. Today that list of performers includes many members of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame! Southeastern Michigan in the 1960's and 1970's was a hot bed for the best rock and roll in the world. It was where those Hall of Famers got their start. Sherwood Forest hosted future stars as they developed performance skills and developed a loyal fan base. Dean Sherwood shares his story of Sherwood Forest. He grew up watching these great performers. From his vantage point he is able to tell a few stories about his parents and their vision as well as encountering these young artists. For thousands of Flint area baby boomers, Sherwood Forest holds many memories of fun and a great place to visit. It was much more than a corporate pavilion of today. Many in their 60's and 70's today, still tell stories of the Age of Aquarius and their version of attending Woodstock Music Festival which was found in Davison, Michigan at Sherwood Forest. Radio Free Flint will also post a YouTube video of this interview at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf7RggWQolcVMxGiWBQJL1kWfiYtuZ_cc You can find this podcast at https://www.radiofreeflint.media/--- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/radiofreeflint/message

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Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:06.639
Hello, uh, this is Arthur Bush.

00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:13.839
You're listening to Radio Free Flint, and today I have a really, really good show for a change.

00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:20.559
This show is gonna take us all back, those from the Flint area, to our youth.

00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:27.359
That is the 1960s and eventually the 1970s if you made it that far.

00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:40.479
We're gonna talk about Sherwood Forest, Davidson, Michigan, Richfield Township, and what was for many, many, many uh of the boomers, uh one of their fond memories of all.

00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:43.920
And let me bring back those fond memories, for example.

00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:59.119
If you can bear with me, my guest is Dean Sherwood, who is the son of Don Sherwood, who was the owner of Sherwood Forest, and the guy that made all this possible for so many years.

00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:17.280
Well, Badfinger played there, Chuck Berry played there, Big Brother in the Holding Company, Blue Oyster Cult, Brownsville Station, the Paul Butterfield Blues Band, or Commander Cody and The Lost Planet Airmen, a great band.

00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:20.640
Uh Climax Blues Band, another good one.

00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:29.120
Alice Cooper, The Electric Prune Flash, The Frost, with Dick Wagner, of course, great local band.

00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:33.519
Uh Fruit, The Ides of March.

00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:34.400
I forgot what song.

00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:36.400
You remember what song they they sang?

00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:36.959
Vehicle.

00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:37.920
Vehicle.

00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:38.879
Vehicle, yeah.

00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:44.000
Yeah, Ides of March, I love this band.

00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:45.120
Bottom horn.

00:01:45.519 --> 00:01:48.640
Jojo Gunn, Justice Miles, MC5.

00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:52.640
It's a great guitarist, who I'm trying to get as a guest, by the way.

00:01:52.879 --> 00:02:01.439
Montrose with Sammy Hagar, Parliament, Funkadelic with George Clinton, Iggy Pop and the Stooges, The Mysterians.

00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:03.120
I don't know if Question Mark played it.

00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:05.200
Dude, Question Mark had to play.

00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:05.920
Yes.

00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:11.280
The Raspberries with Eric Carmen, who in his own right when the solo act did really well.

00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:14.560
Ario Speedwagon, I definitely have heard of them.

00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:32.639
Smoky Robinson and the Miracles, Rumor, and of course Detroit's Great, Mitch Rider and the Detroit Wheels, SmackDab, Spooky Tooth, SRC, I remember that band.

00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:44.639
Sugarloaf, T Garden and Van Winkle, Third Power, Whiz Kids, and of course, I loved Edgar Winter's White Trash with Rick Deringer.

00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:47.840
And Stevie Wonder.

00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:50.400
Stevie Wonder played there.

00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:51.599
I couldn't believe it when I heard that.

00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:53.680
And of course, we left out a couple others.

00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:57.680
We left off Terry Knight, of course.

00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:01.039
And we left off Bob Seeger.

00:03:02.159 --> 00:03:07.439
And other than that, I think, and all the versions of Grand Funk Railroad, right, Dean?

00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:10.400
Grandfunk never played there.

00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:13.039
Oh, Grandfunk never played.

00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:15.280
Oh no, just Don Brewer, right?

00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:15.919
Yeah.

00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:16.960
And yeah.

00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:21.840
Well, the pack, carrying the pack, and then back to the pack again, but never Grand Funk.

00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:26.319
Tell us a little tell us how Sherwood Forest got rolling.

00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:33.599
Well, my dad was a dairy farmer with acreage on uh M15.

00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:42.479
And he bought an adjacent farm that fronted on Richfield Road.

00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:46.639
And he had a wet spot he could never do anything with.

00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:54.879
Um tried to drain it, tried everything he could, but finally gave up and dug it as a pond.

00:03:55.599 --> 00:03:58.639
And um that really was the beginning of things.

00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:11.599
The um the uh second farm that he bought there on Richfield Road had a small house on it that he started renting out um for parties and such.

00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:24.560
And somewhere in the along the line he got it in his head to uh to build that first reception hall, which is the one for the Wild Wednesdays you remember from you know behind the stage.

00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:27.839
He built that hall in 1958, right?

00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:28.560
If you remember.

00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:32.079
Uh yeah, I believe it opened in 58, 57.

00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:37.680
Yeah, and the idea there was to have dances and like a like a wedding hall, right?

00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:38.480
Like right.

00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:46.480
Uh when he built the second edition, 1969, um, that was the largest hall around.

00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:52.959
So if you're gonna do anything of any size, you know, your next step up was pretty much the IMA auditorium.

00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:55.199
There was an outdoor stage there.

00:04:56.000 --> 00:05:07.199
Yeah, the original was uh a band shell, um, just an old-fashioned band show with the polished concrete patio for dancing on.

00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:10.480
And uh that was uh the early days.

00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:12.720
Um a lot of sock hops.

00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:16.720
Yeah, that was in 1959, is what I discovered.

00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:17.360
Okay.

00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:29.920
I I didn't know the year, I was only two years old then, so uh but um yeah, that's where Stevie Wonder, the Four Tops, the Motown acts all performed.

00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:31.680
Wow, the Four Tops too.

00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:32.800
Yes.

00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:34.160
I missed them.

00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:36.480
Uh there were um, yeah.

00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:45.439
Um and so in the early days they Stevie Wonder would have played in that shell, not in some larger right.

00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:50.639
So it was a very, very intimate, very intimate uh setting.

00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:53.279
It was a dance, it was a teen dance.

00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:56.160
He played drums and harmonica and sang.

00:05:57.040 --> 00:05:58.399
Did you ever meet him?

00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:01.120
Yes, the first blind person I ever met.

00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:03.759
What kind of person was he?

00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:11.519
Yeah, I didn't get to spend any time with him, uh, but you know, he he seemed to be quite the gentleman.

00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:21.199
In 1964, things moved along, and then Don Brewer played in 1964 at that stage, or one of those stages.

00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:25.279
The Jazz Masters.

00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:37.120
Uh Don Brewer, by the way, is later became part of the Grand Funk Railroad, which was which was one of the better-known bands ever to come out of the Flint area.

00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:41.759
Also, Smokey, Robinson, and the Miracles.

00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:45.519
They played in 1964 at that venue.

00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:48.240
Uh they're still going, by the way.

00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:49.439
Did you know that?

00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:53.120
The Miracles, and Smokey is too.

00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:57.360
Uh I'll give you a little trivia tip.

00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:05.759
The Miracles have as their lead singer now, who's supposed to, well, yeah, it does sound like Smokey.

00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:07.360
He's a Flint guy.

00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:10.639
I can't think of his name right off the top of my head, but he's actually a Flint guy.

00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:11.279
But I don't know.

00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:14.959
I think there's one miracle left, something like that.

00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:25.439
Uh okay, so last person was Terry Knight, of course, who was the infamous musician, and ultimately he became a promoter himself, didn't he?

00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:26.160
Or manager?

00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:27.040
He was a manager.

00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:27.600
Yeah, manager.

00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:29.040
He managed Grand Funk.

00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:34.800
Now, then uh there was a fella by the name of Peter C.

00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:36.879
Kavanaugh that came along.

00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:38.560
Who is he?

00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:40.160
Who was he?

00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:51.040
Um Peter was probably the best promoter that that ever came to Flint, or possibly anywhere else.

00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:54.160
He was just a delight to be around, even as a kid.

00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:55.920
He was always a delight.

00:07:57.759 --> 00:07:59.439
He he's a smart guy.

00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:02.000
He is a smart, smart guy.

00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:02.800
Yes, he is.

00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:10.240
Peter C's day job at that time was working at WTAC radio.

00:08:10.720 --> 00:08:12.800
Yeah, he did the morning show, I believe.

00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:22.560
And so he was really a disc jockey that that ended up expanding his career in conjunction with your dad.

00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:23.680
Yes.

00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:25.839
Yeah.

00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:29.519
So what's your dad think of this guy, Peter C.

00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:30.480
Kavanaugh?

00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:34.480
There was a mutual admiration between the two of them.

00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:39.840
I've heard Peter say several times that he thought my father was the kindest person he ever known.

00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:45.679
Um and my dad uh certainly uh certainly respected and loved him.

00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:48.879
They had a very good working relationship.

00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:55.759
As zany as he was, he had a quiet businessman's side to him that was always in control.

00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:04.000
Peter C being the ultimate promoter of the day, that was before uh Ticketmaster, right?

00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:08.080
Yes, yes.

00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:21.759
But you know, you know, Dean in reading up on this subject, uh a lot of guys who played at Sherwood Forest still talk about Peter C.

00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:30.399
Kavanaugh as being someone who was just a remarkable person who gave who gathered people and created something beautiful.

00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:32.960
Is an amazing person.

00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:41.279
My understanding is that WTAC had an exclusivity, you know, and he would handle the promotions.

00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:47.519
And WTAC became the sponsor in 1969, and from there things started to roll.

00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:51.120
That's the year my father built, you know, the larger of the reception hall.

00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:56.639
This concert venue um was quite large.

00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:04.080
I mean, the the air what made it what made it such a fun place is it was such such a great expanse, don't you think?

00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:08.960
Well, yeah, the size helped.

00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:13.759
Your dad never really saw this as some place that was gonna be a concert venue.

00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:15.519
Not originally, no.

00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:23.120
Uh my interpretation of it, uh, my father being a man of few words, was sort of a family farm for the people that had left the farm.

00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:26.399
He saw it more as a park than he did anything else.

00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:27.360
Yes.

00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:30.879
Remember, he opened it before the county parks came along.

00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:33.360
Your dad made an interesting comment.

00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:41.759
He said this is gonna be a a park for people that left the city, that that left the country or left the farm.

00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:43.519
It was gonna be a park for those people.

00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:47.919
He dug dug the pond, as I mentioned earlier, put up a tobogganing hill.

00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:51.360
You have to put that dirt somewhere when you dig the pond.

00:10:52.080 --> 00:11:04.399
Uh he also wisely sold the marl, the soil uh from that marshy area, uh, as a soil conditioner to the federal government.

00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:06.399
So he he did all right there.

00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:14.240
There are outdoor pavilions, horse-drawn hay rides, and sleigh rides, really a dray on sleds or wheels, a horseback riding stable.

00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:17.039
Your dad created all kinds of things out there.

00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:23.519
Tell us a little bit about some of the other stuff, the park aspect of this place, other than just as a concert venue.

00:11:23.919 --> 00:11:25.759
Well, you know, the picnic grounds.

00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:30.960
You know, once again, before the county parks and that, people didn't have any place to really go for a picnic.

00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:34.080
Rides were brought in by others.

00:11:34.399 --> 00:11:37.919
The right- you mean the rides being the horses and stuff?

00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:42.799
No, the um the tilted world, the uh there was an amusement park.

00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:47.440
He's becoming in Barnum Barnum and Bailey Circus here with all this activity, isn't he?

00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:49.519
Barnum Bailey came out there too.

00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:52.639
They played there several times.

00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:55.279
Only four or five summers in a row.

00:11:55.679 --> 00:11:57.919
The largest tented circus left on earth.

00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:06.720
Some people have described this Sherwood Forest as is the Woodstock of Davidson uh in the 1960s.

00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:10.639
You know, your father really, uh maybe it was Peter C.

00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:17.360
that came up with the idea, but the Woodstock was right around that period when he made this deal with Peter C.

00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:18.399
Kavanaugh.

00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:24.879
Do you remember what they called the event that they they started to stage through WTAC?

00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:29.440
Um there were Super Sundays and Wild Wednesdays.

00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:31.039
Wild Wednesday, yes.

00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:38.080
So Wild Wednesday, Wild Wednesday was always the Wednesday closest to the summer solstice.

00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.000
The others had different names.

00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:45.440
And that was all in the promoter's head.

00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:49.759
Yes, yeah, that was all I'm pretty much pretty sure that was Peter.

00:12:49.919 --> 00:13:11.840
Peter C and your father really what they saw was was, I mean, they were trying to play off of what happened in Woodstock basically by taking the uh the farm and the music and the water and this outdoors kind of atmosphere where you know peace and love and uh coexistence can exist.

00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:13.600
Would that be an apt description?

00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:15.759
Yeah, yeah, they clearly played off of it.

00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:18.240
I mean, there were 12-hour outdoor rock concerts.

00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:22.720
I believe the top crowd was around 14 to 16,000, right in that rank.

00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:25.919
Of course, initially bought this property for farming.

00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:32.720
His view about this was quite different than a lot of the uh a lot of the fathers of the day.

00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:36.960
What was what what do you remember him saying about this whole thing?

00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:40.240
The idea that he he'd open it up to kids like this.

00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:41.840
Yeah, um, I don't know.

00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:45.679
One of his most common sayings was the kids have to have someplace to go.

00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:47.919
That was, you know, that was the thing.

00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:50.080
The kids have to have someplace to go.

00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:58.639
You know, he was on the Ritual Township zoning board and just thought was, well, we have to bring some jobs, you know, here for the locals.

00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:00.720
You know, kids have to have something to do.

00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:03.039
How many people were employed there?

00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:04.399
Hard to say.

00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:08.240
At any one time, I would say seven to ten.

00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:10.879
Not counting the musicians.

00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:11.600
Right.

00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:14.320
Or Peter C or the radio crew or any of that.

00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:20.879
But I mean, it had an economic impact on that area.

00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:21.440
Yes.

00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:30.639
One of the things that I discovered is that it had it had crowds that were as big as the concerts when it came to picnics.

00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:34.000
Do you remember picnics at this place?

00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:34.879
Well, sure.

00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:36.399
You know, a lot of families came out.

00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:38.159
I mean, there were picnic tables everywhere.

00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:40.960
Organizations would hold picnics there as well.

00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:41.840
Oh, yes.

00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:44.559
The UAW, like you said, every Labor Day.

00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:45.519
That was huge.

00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:48.639
That was worse than cleaning up after 14,000 hippies.

00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:57.840
Well, the the the Flint Journal reported that there were about 10,000 union guys out there in their families.

00:14:58.159 --> 00:14:58.480
Yes.

00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:00.559
Yeah, it was it was huge.

00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:03.039
And a lot of people remember those.

00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:06.480
They probably didn't drink, they probably drank more than the kids, right?

00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:08.159
Because the kids weren't old enough to drink.

00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:09.039
No doubt.

00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:10.240
No doubt.

00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:12.320
Okay.

00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:14.559
Now when did your dad pass?

00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:16.080
He's not alive now.

00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:19.679
No, um March of 2000.

00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:33.039
I'm sure you had some conversations with your dad about you know what this was that he had created because it affected, you know, it touched so many thousands of people in uh in in Michigan, particularly Genesee County.

00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:38.000
But uh what was what was it that he wanted Sherwood Forest to be remembered as?

00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:39.759
Uh the family gathering place.

00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:49.519
The last conversation we had with three days before his heart attack, you know, I mean, he didn't regret the concerts in that, but he was always afraid that that was going to end up being his legacy.

00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:53.759
And it was the family gathering place that that was really important to him.

00:15:53.919 --> 00:16:10.240
The concerts were what uh four times in the summer, you know, the out big outdoor concerts at indoor concerts, you know, virtually every Sunday night, September through May, but um but that was a small part of his business.

00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:22.720
Well, when you're bringing people like Smokey Robinson of the Miracles and Stevie Wonder and Bob Seeger to the place, I don't think it's gonna be remembered for the old union leaders or some preachers in Flint.

00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:28.000
Its legacy grew after it no longer played music, right?

00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:29.200
After the music died.

00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:35.360
He he sold it a couple of times on land contract and it came back like a boomerang before he finally did sell it.

00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:36.879
Why'd he want to sell it?

00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:38.799
My father was a workaholic.

00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:43.840
That park was a 16-hour-a-day thing for him.

00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:46.879
It was never even mentioned that one of his kids would take it over.

00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:52.399
I don't even I don't even remember it being mentioned uh from the time that I could toddle and pick up papers.

00:16:54.960 --> 00:17:00.080
So that wasn't an age when he wanted to pick up papers, I take it.

00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:00.639
No.

00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.440
Yeah, but yeah, that was that was the thing.

00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:06.000
I mean, you're old enough to clean something, you're old enough to work.

00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:07.119
That was that.

00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:20.079
So eventually what happens to to the music aspect of this is that the music industry essentially changed uh in the uh in the early 70s.

00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:37.519
And then we we started getting big promoters, so that smaller smaller venues, so to uh we never looked at say pine knob as competition, they were a bigger venue, you know, and they could detract bigger acts.

00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:42.480
You know, the the the larger venues weren't like I said, they weren't direct competition.

00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:46.079
There was plenty of room for pine knob and Sherwood Forest.

00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:51.839
Yeah, I don't know how much longer it would have been there, and they paid two dollars to get in.

00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:54.079
Do you remember who the first act was?

00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:54.960
How old were you?

00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:59.039
Like I was I was 12, and I I really don't well.

00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:00.720
Let me tell you who they were.

00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:06.000
Bob Seeger was the first Wild Wednesday, The Rationals.

00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:14.000
I thought it was gonna be the Rascals, but it's the Rationals, SRC, was a big-time Detroit rock band.

00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:22.319
Oh, yeah, and the Bang, that was the first rodeo for for Sherwood Forest, and that was Bob Seeger still looks back at this.

00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:24.480
Did you get to know him at all?

00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:26.480
Yes, yeah, yeah.

00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:30.799
And my mother, of course, is his biggest fan, or was his biggest fan, I should say.

00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:31.519
Really?

00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:36.240
Yeah, he even visited her on Macken Island uh after my folks retired.

00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:38.240
Well, tell us a Bob Seeger story.

00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:45.039
I have pictures of me doing the bunny hop and hokey pokey with Bob Seeger, with Tommy jumping with the saxophone and the bunny hop.

00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:55.200
We go in the the lower part of the the older hall, which is what served as a dressing room, and old jukebox down there, and I'd always put it on continuous play when he was around.

00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:58.240
He would play a lot of the old combo jazz and big band.

00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:01.119
You know.

00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:03.680
And then of course the bunny hop and hokey pokey.

00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:08.640
Now, do you ever talk to him?

00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:13.759
Because he doesn't live far from uh no, he doesn't live far from me, but no, I don't.

00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:16.240
I haven't been in touch with him in a long time.

00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:21.920
What what what kind of guy was he?

00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:24.079
How would you describe him?

00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:27.359
He was, you know, I mean, he's sort of blue-collar Bob.

00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:33.440
Um, definitely not full of himself uh in any stretch.

00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:39.599
Um and he was also, you know, the the protagonist in Turn the Page.

00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:41.440
I just remember him as Bob.

00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:50.319
One of the things that I'm sure a lot of little girls in the area remember is that that was also a day camp for the for the Girl Scouts.

00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:53.599
It was for the Kersley area as well as Davison.

00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:59.279
And and also for the one of the synagogues in Flint had Camp Maccabee out there every summer.

00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:04.640
You had Wild Wednesdays got going and got wild.

00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:07.359
That be a fair statement.

00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:08.480
Yeah.

00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:11.359
It may be an understatement.

00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:16.000
Uh, because there's a lot of people gonna listen to this who know what those were.

00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:20.000
And then there got to be Super Sunday.

00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:22.400
Well, Super Sunday was first.

00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:24.160
Oh, it was.

00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:27.839
Super Sunday goes back to days with uh WTRX.

00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:28.559
Yes.

00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:29.200
Okay.

00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:32.079
Now I thought you said there were only four of those.

00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:34.640
Four Wednesdays during the summer.

00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:37.279
No, I don't know how many Super Sundays there were.

00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:38.240
Oh, okay.

00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:41.599
And it was Super Sunday inside or outside?

00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:42.480
Outside.

00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:53.759
The Sunday concerts uh were generally two bands, you know, one opened and then you know Bob Seeger or uh Donovan or somebody else, you know, followed.

00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:54.640
Donovan.

00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:55.279
Yeah.

00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.759
The psychedelic folk singer.

00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:58.480
Yeah.

00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:01.039
In fact, the Ides of March was an indoor concert.

00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:14.400
I don't remember who opened for them, but so in 1971, there's it's reported that there's a crowd of 10,000 people show up to listen to the Amboy Dukes, Brownsville Station, and Bob Seeger.

00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.720
By 1972, the last show was held out there.

00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:21.920
Do you re do you recall that last show and who played it?

00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:22.720
74.

00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:29.519
So the last show was Ted Nugent and Frigid Pink.

00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:35.039
So 72 is the last super Sunday, which would have been a big crowd outside.

00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:40.079
And then in 1973, stuff started happening.

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:45.680
You're talking about the political stuff?

00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:47.599
Started to be problems.

00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:52.640
There were a lot of complaints all along about the concert.

00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:54.000
Bunch of hippies.

00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:58.000
There was never any trouble or vandalism or fighting or such.

00:21:58.240 --> 00:21:58.640
I don't know.

00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:05.680
My father always attributed it to jealousy, but it became politically difficult to keep up with the concert.

00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:11.039
So so basically, the the local government was getting irritated.

00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:17.599
The neighbors probably were always irritated by it, but the sheriff of Genesee County is a different story.

00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:19.279
John O'Brien.

00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:19.920
Yeah.

00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:21.279
Tell us about him.

00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:22.880
I didn't know him well.

00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:25.920
I was 16 at the time, after all.

00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:33.440
Uh, if you're talking about him sending people in to make arrests, uh yes.

00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:40.640
They also set up safety checkpoints for vehicles down the road.

00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.680
All right, so then the cops started to bear down on this place for something to do, it looks like.

00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:51.920
And then the cops came in and they kind of ruined the party, so to speak, is what it comes down to.

00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:53.039
Yeah.

00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:53.440
Yeah.

00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:59.359
1969 they they didn't like the first one uh that was held indoors.

00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:01.839
They broke it up because they used speech?

00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:02.400
Yeah.

00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:04.640
In an indoor event.

00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:08.240
Did did anybody come to your rescue?

00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:09.839
Oh yeah.

00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:12.160
Yeah, Peter handled it very well.

00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:13.759
He did, yeah.

00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:14.400
Yes.

00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:15.200
Yes.

00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:24.559
Um, so so MC5's on the stage, they say kick out that's their song, their signature song, kick out the jams, motherfucker.

00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.599
And then the cops come in and shut the thing down?

00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:28.559
Yeah.

00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:30.160
Lord have mercy.

00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:32.000
Did anybody get arrested?

00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:32.880
No.

00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:34.880
They just kicked them out.

00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:35.680
Yeah.

00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:38.000
Oh my gosh.

00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:46.559
Okay, well, we people that are younger than me, my children's generation, gotta remember it was America, love it or leave it.

00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:47.519
Remember that?

00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:49.119
Yes, I do.

00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:55.519
And I and the Merle Haggard song, I'm proud to be an okey from Muskogee.

00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:56.559
Yep.

00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:02.559
And he sings about how how in in Oklahoma they don't smoke pot.

00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:03.839
Right.

00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:06.720
But he smokes it every day.

00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:16.319
He got this image as a red, as the ultimate redneck, and he was he was using dope every day.

00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:18.079
Uh amazing stuff.

00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:29.119
So in June 26 of 1994, as Don McLean would sing, was the day the music died, right?

00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:30.559
1974.

00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:32.640
1974, excuse me.

00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:35.119
That's the day the music died.

00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:43.519
And on stage, as you recall, was Bob Seeger.

00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:52.319
And there was also Sammy Hagar and Spooky Tooth.

00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:55.599
That was the last, that was the last dance out there.

00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:01.279
Now, um you said your dad eventually sold it.

00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:01.839
Yes.

00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:04.720
It's not all that bad if you sell something twice.

00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:09.759
Sometimes you get to keep the money you got the first time if you're smart.

00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:17.200
So your dad sells the place, and then um and then what happened?

00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:35.839
Um he took uh the Canadian Highway 17 uh out to the West Coast and did sort of the grand tour of the West and came back.

00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:45.920
And the uh next summer he became the first carriage or first caretaker of the carriage museum on Macken Island.

00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:55.519
And that's what he did as long as he continued working, which excuse me he'd have gone back to work in two more weeks if he hadn't died when he did.

00:25:56.799 --> 00:25:57.440
Wow.

00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:05.440
So he was 80 years old and had no intentions of retiring ever.

00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:06.640
At 80.

00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:07.920
At 80.

00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:13.359
Do you think your dad understood his place in history?

00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:16.160
Uh at least the history of Michigan music.

00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:17.119
He did.

00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:23.759
When I look at it, and if John O'Brien was here sitting next to me today, I'd say John.

00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:35.839
I always thought that Peter Kavanaugh pretty much ran the show, and my father was along for the ride because he owned the property, but uh but Peter has assured me that was not so.

00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:39.279
You know, that my father was a very active managing part.

00:26:39.519 --> 00:26:40.799
I like to ask you a question.

00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:48.079
What do you think they remember most, the the the voters of this community about Sherwood Forest?

00:26:48.319 --> 00:27:01.519
You messing with it, Smokey Robinson, Bob Seeger, Sammy Hagar, you snuffing out the pot smokers, or the people that brought so much joy and great memories that have survived all these years.

00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:03.759
And I won't answer that question for him.

00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:15.519
You know, when you have the view of history and you take it and assess it over 50 years or whatever it's been, keeping kids from listening to rock and roll music doesn't seem to be high on the radar screen to me.

00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:18.160
No, but it was a popular pastime for many.

00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:20.000
Yeah, for sure.

00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:20.960
For sure.

00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:21.839
It still is.

00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:27.839
So Michael Moore, what did he say about uh Peter Kavanaugh saved uh Flint from the likes of Pat Boone?

00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:29.119
Nita Bryant.

00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:36.160
And then not only did the music die, but Sherwood Forest had a great calamity after your dad left.

00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:42.559
Pretty much uh kids came over from the neighboring trailer park and you know they vandalized the place.

00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:47.680
I mean, at one time they had destroyed a wedding cake and things like that, eventually they burned it down.

00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:49.200
Really don't have details.

00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:58.720
I was so the place went to ruin basically, and it was no longer uh what could have been an extraordinarily valuable asset to the county.

00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:01.599
It attracted a lot of people who had money in their pocket.

00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:09.359
The place is destroyed and it sat there from 1989 when the fire occurred.

00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:19.839
Yeah, in 2019, it went for sale for$700,000, but you know, it never has regained any of its luster in terms of being a park.

00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:24.319
Obviously, there's a lot of parkland now, 11,000 acres worth out in the neighborhood.

00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:28.240
Uh that's that's the sad story of Sherwood Forest.

00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:32.799
The happy story is that all the rock musicians lived happily ever after.

00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:37.440
And that that was largely because of your father um who gave them their start.

00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:43.920
I wonder as a boy, did you you were growing up too, you were getting to be a teenager at some point here.

00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:48.079
When all that music was going on, did you ever just want to go out there and listen to it?

00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:58.640
Yes, it's it's been uh I I I've it's been only in the last probably 15 years I've been able to just sit and enjoy music.

00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:01.599
If a band is playing, I should be doing something.

00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:17.839