May 2, 2021

Michigan Lumber Company: Oldest Lumber Yard in Flint Area

Michigan Lumber is a Centennial business in the City of Flint. Gerald Haan and his daughter Katie are the third and fourth generation to run the family-owned business.

Gerald also shares his views about Michigan Lumber, Flint, and its future. He also shares his dream of building affordable new single-family housing in the downtown Flint area.

Michigan Lumber is located just beyond the center of downtown Flint. The family-owned business has been working from its original location since its founders came to the Greater Flint area in 1916.

Most observers would assume that any business starting about that time would be tied to the booming automobile factories. This lumber company contributed not only to the building of Flint's auto manufacturing prominence but also to the overall growth of the Flint area.

The company holds the distinction of being the oldest lumber yard in Genesee County, Michigan. Michigan Lumber continues to operate under the philosophy established by their elders to give today's established customers the finest quality lumber products with an underscore of premier service by exceptionally experienced staff.

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The company address is 1919 Clifford Street, Flint, Michigan, near the intersection of Saginaw and 12th St.
Learn more about the products and services provided by Michigan Lumber by visiting their website: https://michiganlumber.com/

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Transcript

WEBVTT

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You're listening to Radio Free Flint.

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This is Arthur Bush.

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Welcome.

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Today's episode guest is Jerry Hahn and his daughter Katie from Michigan Lumber.

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Welcome to Radio Free Flint, Jerry.

00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:15.439
Thank you.

00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:20.239
Jerry, you're now the owner of Michigan Lumber.

00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:21.120
That is correct.

00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:28.719
About a year or so ago, my cousin Chuck decided he had enough, so we we purchased his interest from him.

00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:33.759
And now my side of the family is the is the owner of the company, yes.

00:00:34.079 --> 00:00:37.039
Tell me how Michigan Lumber got it started.

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It's kind of an interesting story.

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And this is about uh 1905 or so.

00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:55.359
He sent his three of his sons down to Flint.

00:00:55.520 --> 00:01:03.439
He had heard about the carriage companies in Flint and how the carriage companies consumed so much lumber.

00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:09.200
So they sent the boys down there to see if they couldn't start something up with these carriage companies.

00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:15.920
And of course, as you know, the carriage companies transformed themselves into the automobile companies that exist today.

00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:21.359
So in the beginning, they were trying to sell lumber to carriage companies.

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And of course, as GM began, um, there was more and more demand for lumber in the area, both industrially and as well as the homes that were built throughout the county.

00:01:32.239 --> 00:01:35.599
Would it be your grandfather then that started the company?

00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:37.040
Yeah, that's correct.

00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:40.799
The formal start date, I think, is 1916.

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They were down several years before that in the in the lumber business and actually sold coal too.

00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:54.959
The original name of the business was Michigan Lumber and Fuel Company, because that time it was fuel oil and coal.

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Your family had dealings with some of the some of the historic figures of Genesee County.

00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:21.280
Do you do you know some of those people that your grandfather had uh contact with and and worked with as a well my grandfather certainly had friends of people like the Hannities and and different people like that in the in the home building business as well as the grocery business.

00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:28.800
Really, the all of the people in Flint that had businesses, as well as some of the General Motors executives.

00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:40.080
I remember my grandmother telling me at one time, she lived till she was over 100 years old, and we were talking about Flint once, and she said how the the GM executives used to stay.

00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:47.280
They would have roots in Flint, and therefore they become part of the community, and that was that enriched the community so much.

00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:58.159
And she was comparing it to the times in the 80s, I guess, where the executives for General Motors would, you know, they'd be in one place for two, three, four years, and then they go on to their next assignment.

00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:00.719
And she could feel a difference in the city.

00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:06.479
But many of their friends were there in the beginning of GM, watched for generations.

00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:13.120
Michigan Lumber essentially built Flint because during the 20s they had a big housing boom.

00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:14.000
That's right.

00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:19.120
Yeah, it was really Michigan Lumber Company and then Flint Lumber Company as well, down by the river.

00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:22.800
Two, the two different, uh, two different businesses, but we did.

00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:35.840
They, you know, my grandfather tells stories of going out in the afternoons, calling on home builders around town, then the next morning getting the getting the loads together and going to deliver them to the to the home builder.

00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:39.840
How did the business survive the Great Depression?

00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:44.000
The only thing I can say is it was well capitalized and well managed.

00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:45.039
I tell you what.

00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:54.319
Um, when you look at uh the last 110 years or whatever we've been around, it's amazing that we've survived all the different things in Flint.

00:03:54.879 --> 00:04:02.960
I think that the the people we got working for us play a certainly a huge part in it, probably the most significant part.

00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:12.000
You know, back then businesses didn't leverage themselves much and they didn't take out much debt, and they it was just slow and steady progress.

00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:24.959
And I think that mentality prepared them for times that, of course, they didn't anticipate, but just because of the natural management style, I think prepared them for those times.

00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:39.600
The business had really diversified itself when you think of a lumber company, because your business historically has catered to General Motors as well as the local housing industry.

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Do you think ability to work within and to supply other industries was a factor?

00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:47.040
Absolutely.

00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:55.279
You know, we did, as you mentioned, we used to do a lot of business with General Motors, and it was great business.

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And we did it for years and years and years.

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You know, in the late 80s, early 90s, that business really tapered off to this day.

00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:08.959
I don't think there's any GM business or very, very little that we do.

00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:14.959
One of the reasons we've done fairly well is the diversification in our mill department.

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We we do really well with specialty products, and that allows us to have a clientele that's maybe a little bit wider spread than a typical lumber yard.

00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:32.399
But even though we were there and we have a mill and we have these specialty products, it's amazing to us all.

00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:37.279
Still to this day, Arthur, people come in and say, I didn't know you were here.

00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:44.240
It's it's amazing to us, and I don't know what else we can do to let people know we're here, but we're still in the same spot.

00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:47.920
Why did your grandfather continue in that spot?

00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:52.480
You know, it's interesting, they were in that spot before the interstate was built there.

00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:55.920
So at one time we were actually better connected.

00:05:56.079 --> 00:05:59.600
The interstate kind of made us an island back in there.

00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:09.279
After that happened, I remember my grandfather saying that, you know, he was looking at the bright side of it and it was closer access to the interstate as far as deliveries go.

00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:14.399
Back then, a lot of our business with General Motors, so it didn't much matter.

00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:23.120
And of course, being adjacent to the train, the train tracks for the grand trunk there allowed us to bring in carloads of lumber back in the day.

00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:30.480
The train tracks are not used for lumber delivery as much as they once were, but back then everything came in by rail.

00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:38.800
The business was really strategically located in the heart of a heart of the city, which has outstanding transportation.

00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:40.560
Yes, that is correct.

00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:50.399
You know, most people would think, well, General Motors quit making maybe General Motors never did make carriages, but they don't make wooden cars.

00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:53.439
And so why would General Motors need wood?

00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:55.120
Yeah, good question.

00:06:55.279 --> 00:07:06.079
It's just the the mere maintenance and ongoing temporary structures, shoring, and things like that are needed in factories.

00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:18.480
So a lot of the time we were supplying just normal two by fours, two by twelves, and plywoods for if they had to build a temporary wall along an assembly line or something like to that effect.

00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:24.639
The other thing that we supplied a lot of was specialty hardware, things that were on a commercial nature.

00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:25.920
We would deal with that.

00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:32.000
Then we did some really interesting things like um pattern pine, which are very soft.

00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:35.279
There's it's sugar pine, so it's very soft.

00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:41.920
They'd actually carve it and then use it for molds for the templates of the body of the car.

00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:44.959
So this was in the design phase of the automobile.

00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:56.560
You know, we'd also at times we would cut plywood to order that they'd use for shipping in between car components when they put them on rail to ship them down to Mexico or wherever they were going.

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We would be part of the shipping materials to keep the load sturdy during the shipping process.

00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:05.920
So lots of different things.

00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:13.120
You know, we paneled the executives' offices and we cut plywood to size to ship parts to Mexico.

00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:20.160
So a really a wide variety of things that we would sell to General Motors and specialty hardware and things like that.

00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:31.120
Obviously, a lumber yard has a hard time really making it without giving, you know, without acquiring some business in the home remodeling and home building sector.

00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:37.600
To that regard, Flint's been a tough slog up and down throughout the 120.

00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:38.879
How many you've been in business?

00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:40.399
110 years or something?

00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:42.000
About that, yes.

00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:46.960
It's a city that survived many, many ups and downs.

00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:50.000
There's been great amounts of housing built.

00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:50.799
Yes.

00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:58.879
We over the past 20 years or so, I would say that that was during the time where the General Motors business tapered off totally.

00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:17.519
And what we found is we our business was picked up by commercial contractors, as well as what I would say a custom home builder or a semi-custom home builder that starts using more higher-end components in the construction of the home.

00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:23.759
Those people were they come from all over today, the Detroit area as well as from the north.

00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:38.960
And again, being able to walk into a lumber yard and get the service that they can at our site and then have the materials in stock or the ability of the mill to transform into what they're looking for has been key for us.

00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:43.360
It's a unique niche that not many others do.

00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:48.159
In that niche, you're talking about making custom pieces of lumber.

00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:54.799
Sometimes we rip or cut the width to a certain width of a board that someone might need.

00:09:55.039 --> 00:10:00.720
The regular dimension of lumber is set, but sometimes it needs to be cut lengthwise.

00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:05.519
We call that ripping the board, and we do that, or we'll plane the board to thickness.

00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:13.360
We also do custom moldings for those people that are renovating older properties and they want to do some matching moldings.

00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:19.919
We have the ability with our equipment in the mill to make custom moldings or to match existing moldings.

00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:22.399
We can do that with paneling as well.

00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:26.879
You know, the old knotty pine paneling that everybody had in their basement at one time.

00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:28.559
We make that in our mill.

00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:34.159
So there's a lot of cutting and planing as well as building of cabinet.

00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:42.799
We recently did some white oak window sashes for Genesee County Parks out at the Huckleberry Railroad.

00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:50.559
I don't know anywhere else in the country you can get custom-made white oak sashes for a model train system.

00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:58.000
My grandfather stayed in till geez, it was in the early 90s, he was involved with the company.

00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:05.519
Then my cousin Chuck, my older cousin Chuck, uh ran the business along with Howard, who was a great uncle of mine.

00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:09.360
So it was your maternal grandfather that founded the business.

00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:11.360
So it'd been your mom's dad.

00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:13.039
That is absolutely correct.

00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:21.759
And so my my mother was born and raised on Maxine Street off Cork Street over by Mont College, and she was raised in Flint.

00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:24.399
Her ties go back her whole life.

00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:24.960
Yeah.

00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:29.759
Cousins run the business for a while, and now you've come and have taken it over.

00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:37.440
You've been in and out of that business for a few years, but what you've brought to the business is sort of a new perspective.

00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:38.240
Is that right?

00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:39.759
I would say I do.

00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:45.360
One of the things that I wasn't living in Flint, my cousin was running the company.

00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:50.159
It seemed like everybody's looking on the bad side of things and why we can't make it.

00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:53.840
My focus has always been on what we can do.

00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:58.240
I tell you what, of late, it's just it's really easy to do that in Flint.

00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:03.120
I'm really excited about the transformation that's happened there.

00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:12.399
It used to be a little bit more difficult to find positive things about the community, but boy, I tell you right now, I am I'm really excited about what we see there.

00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:14.399
We're feeling it in our business.

00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:16.080
Our business is good.

00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:18.399
Our people are excited about it.

00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:22.639
We've got young people working for us now that are living downtown.

00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:25.759
It's finally for sure happening.

00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:27.200
It's been long awaited.

00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:37.679
Have these young people been uh trained in colleges or trade schools, or are they just learning from those that have worked there for so many years?

00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:41.679
Mostly from learning from those that have have been there.

00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:50.559
We do have a couple young guys that actually, one of them right now is being, you know, really trained and groomed in the management sector.

00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:55.759
He's a University of Michigan Flint student, uh part-time student, anyhow.

00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:58.960
He's a second generation employee.

00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:02.080
So his father's been with us for 30 plus years.

00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:07.360
And he started in the yard and he's transformed from the yard to the warehouse to the mill.

00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:11.919
Now he's in the office, and now he's in the back of the office in the executive offices.

00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:18.960
So it's fun to see a second generation employee grow through the company like that.

00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:25.039
And I mean, he's really excited about the future and got a huge future ahead of him.

00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:32.240
Getting a good college education and being able to take some of his business and apply it every day there on Clifford Street.

00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:35.919
After 110 years, we thought we'd do some branding, Arthur.

00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:40.159
That's probably a very good idea, maybe a little past two.

00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:51.759
With Katie's entrance to the business, this marks now the fourth generation of your family uh to participate in Michigan Lumber.

00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:52.879
That is correct.

00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:53.440
Yeah.

00:13:53.759 --> 00:14:02.159
Katie is the fourth generation, and you know, she works alongside one of the other uh employees at Michigan Lumber Company, is a fellow by the name of Tom Howley.

00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:04.720
Tommy is third generation.

00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:13.039
And so his grandfather worked for us, his dad worked for us, and now Tommy works for us as the yard foreman.

00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:14.720
That's that's really special.

00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:17.679
At Michigan Lumber, it's really got a different vibe.

00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:32.879
Yeah, and you know, when the big box stores came to Flint, I think Builder Square was the first one, we really emphasize the fact that we do provide service and we do have knowledge because we couldn't compete with them with pricing.

00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:38.159
I don't think their pricing model worked real well for them either, since they're not in business anymore.

00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:51.440
You know, the one thing we had to do is set us ourselves apart as far as the quality of the materials and the service that we provided our contractors as well as our walk-in, you know, more retail customers.

00:14:51.679 --> 00:15:01.679
And one hand, the big boxes actually helped us because the big box doors, the Home Depots, the Builder Square, actually got people more involved with doing their own repairs.

00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:10.960
Generally speaking, people such as yourself that have a different profession than Carpentry might need a little bit more guidance than a normal carpenter.

00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:18.240
So it really led we led people to us that maybe needed a little assistance in their project.

00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:28.000
And they ended up finding us and seeing what we could do, and usually had a really good experience, and they'd even drive out of their way to come to our yard to purchase.

00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:33.440
Yeah, so we've kind of taken our website and rethought a lot of the aspects of it.

00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:43.679
We want to provide more for our customer and not just have you know a landing page and hopefully moving toward ordering online and really getting up to speed with technology.

00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:48.399
We've kind of taken a we've been in a standstill for a while, so I think it's time.

00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:54.240
And obviously, we have social media going now, which helps for our awareness so people actually can find us.

00:15:54.559 --> 00:16:02.480
Katie, talk about the we had a we had a YouTube influence influencer come visit us, Arthur.

00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:07.600
And and what it is is this guy has a YouTube channel about woodworking.

00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:11.519
And so, Katie, didn't we invite him up from the Detroit area or something?

00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:12.080
Yeah.

00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:19.120
Billy Newton from the Detroit area came and we showed him the mill and he took some videos, and it was a really great experience.

00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:31.840
We had one other person come too, so we're trying to get more eyes on our mill and all the all of its capabilities, but that's just one example of how we've kind of branched out, got a little out of our comfort zone.

00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:36.960
And and the other thing we've done, Arthur, is we brought on a co-op, a co-op student, right?

00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:39.600
An intern type of thing from University of Michigan.

00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:40.559
U of M Flint.

00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:47.440
U of M Flint, and she's helping with doing some photography and and some media work with it as well.

00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:54.639
So we're starting to reach out to some of the local schools, but I think we talked at Kettering as well as University of Michigan Flint.

00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:58.240
So it's fun to get those young people involved with us as well.

00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:02.159
Who are the customers of Michigan Lumber?

00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:03.919
It's a good question.

00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:06.799
And I can't say for sure that I know.

00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:09.279
I know sectors of the market.

00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:18.880
I mean, first of all, we do deal quite a bit with residential home builders that are building custom and semi-custom homes.

00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:22.480
That is certainly one sector of our business.

00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:30.640
And I say this, and these people, you know, they range.

00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:36.559
It's from everything from you know fixing a door and screwing on the hinge to you know adding on an addition.

00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:43.440
We're doing some decking workshop, the kind of do-it-yourselfers, but pretty big projects.

00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:48.480
Some of these people are building some big decks, but they're coming to get some guidance and some new ideas.

00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:52.640
And then, believe it or not, Arthur, we're we're getting crafters.

00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:57.839
We've always had people that enjoy using wood in their crafts.

00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:07.920
And you know, whether it's building a birdhouse or a shadow box or all these different types of craft projects, many of them need wood or lumber type products.

00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:10.799
And so we have that component to our business as well.

00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:17.519
And of course, we still supply the commercial contractors as well as the manufacturing sector.

00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:40.480
When I say manufacturing, not as we did at one time with General Motors, but more of a component to a manufacturer, maybe a window company, a local window company, for example, will supply materials to, or a cabinet company down in the Detroit area, we might supply hardwoods to, and that ends up becoming an end product out of their out of their warehouse or their factory.

00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:47.599
Do you get any people like me wandering in asking a lot of stupid questions about how to work with various types of woods?

00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:49.039
You bet you we do.

00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:50.079
We love it.

00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:51.440
Just love it.

00:18:51.680 --> 00:19:00.640
It's always fun to watch the person as we take them back to our mill, potentially introduce them to one of the craftsmen back there.

00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:07.200
The crafter, the do-it-yourselfer walks into the mill and their eyes just explode with all of everything back there.

00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:12.480
You know, not only do we have a lot of equipment, but some of the equipment is old.

00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:15.359
It looks old, but it's still running and working.

00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:19.599
And some of the equipment is relatively new with laser beams on it.

00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:26.319
So we've got both, but though to see it all on a couple floors in the mill area really gets people excited.

00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:29.839
And they could spend hours talking to our guys back there.

00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:36.160
I mean, they really are talented craftsmen, but you just don't find that a whole lot anymore.

00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:40.559
Some of these guys have got great senses of humor and they know what our customers wanted.

00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:43.759
Jerry, let's switch subjects here for just a minute.

00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:45.359
Your family's from Flint.

00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:51.839
And ended up in Flint in the in the 80s when my great uncle became ill.

00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:59.759
I went to Flint, was there until about 2000, when I went off on my own and started doing some affordable.

00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:04.160
Housing development, actually doing it across the country currently.

00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:11.279
I'm also very interested in working on the neighborhood that Michigan Lumber sits in in Flint.

00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:17.599
You know, with the resurgence of downtown and what's happening downtown, it's just so great.

00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:27.839
And of course, going to the north of downtown has gotten a lot of attention, and now the city is focusing on you know south of 69, which is fabulous.

00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:34.559
But there is a neighborhood that we're really working on just to the east of our lumberyard.

00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:40.000
They're at 12th in Clifford to about La Pierre Street in 12th.

00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:42.319
It's an old neighborhood.

00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:44.480
It's just been it's tired.

00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:46.400
It needs to be revitalized.

00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:51.599
Katie and I are committed to make a difference in that neighborhood around the lumberyard.

00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:58.880
Actually, working with an old friend of yours, Phil Vives, because Phil was born and raised near the near the lumberyard.

00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:03.599
And he and his daughter are working with us on this endeavor.

00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:07.039
And it's it's it's a big project and it's slow moving.

00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:29.359
The end goal is to revitalize that neighborhood and allow for another, you know, young people live in downtown, eventually they're going to want a backyard, and we're going to have a place where as those younger folks want to move out from the downtown area, we'll have something very close to downtown with all the amenities of a single family home.

00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:34.240
You've come to see Flint's ups and downs and experience them yourself.

00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:37.839
How would you describe Flint, Michigan, to an outsider?

00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:39.759
There's survivors.

00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:42.319
People in Flint can survive.

00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:44.799
There's also a great talent.

00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:46.799
There's great talent in Flint.

00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:50.319
The workers in Flint have great talent.

00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:53.359
Way back when maybe the results would be different.

00:21:53.599 --> 00:22:02.079
To this day, it makes me sad when I see there's still a lot of people that hang in there and keep on swinging, and it pays off.

00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:03.440
You know, it does.

00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:10.799
As we're seeing today in Flint, all the work these people have been doing that we've all been doing is starting to pay off.

00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:28.720
One of the words that's been used a lot in the interviews I've conducted is uh the term resilience, that Flint has, and Flint and its people have an amazing resilience to overcome the ups and downs, almost as if that's just normal life.

00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:30.160
I totally agree.

00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:32.240
I think I used the word survivor.

00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:38.720
I think I told the guys early on during the COVID-19 shutdown at the state and what have you.

00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:43.200
I said, listen, we've we've survived two world wars and a depression.

00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:45.680
This blue is not going to stop us.

00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:48.880
You know, I didn't have to say that many times to the guys.

00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:51.119
They it it's natural to them.

00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:54.880
You know, they're resilient or or they're survivors, absolutely.

00:22:55.119 --> 00:23:08.160
You know, we're really focused on the positive side of things and how we can, you know, be prepared for that into the future, is as well as what we can do to help with the revitalization of Flint.

00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:11.839
I don't try to stay away from the negative side of it.

00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:18.799
You know, over the years it would have been very easy to get bogged down with all the reasons why we can't be successful.

00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:23.279
And unfortunately, a lot of businesses did do that and didn't make it.

00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:29.279
It's great when I go back to Flint and see some of those family names around town that you know are still there.

00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:33.839
Flint uh has survived many transitions.

00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:39.759
I mean, we went from carriages to cars, and we've done a lot of other things in that period of time.

00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:44.880
Michigan lumber represents, I think, the epitome of the adaptability of the city.

00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:46.640
You have any comment on that?

00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:51.839
We did have to adapt a lot with General Motors leaving us as a customer.

00:23:52.160 --> 00:24:01.200
You know, when you're doing 30 to 40 percent of your business with one customer, that's not a good thing necessarily.

00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:05.680
Because when you lose that one customer, you're losing 40% of your business.

00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:10.000
And that's ironically, that's kind of what Flint did with GM, right?

00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:16.400
Um way back when Flint invested their everything into uh General Motors.

00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:21.119
GM left Michigan Lumber, but they also left Flint to a good extent.

00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:23.440
You know, what is Flint gonna be in the future?

00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:29.440
I mean, certainly education's gonna play a role in that, and some level of manufacturing is gonna play a role in it.

00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:33.119
What it looks like 10 or 15 years from now, I'm not sure.

00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:37.039
Well, we're sure of one thing, it's gonna look different than it does today.

00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:40.000
Yeah, and I think it's gonna look better than it does today.

00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:43.200
It's looking good, but I think it's gonna continue on that.

00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:52.720
When I got a call from my cousin to come back to Flint because he had problems, I, you know, he was considering locking the gates and throwing in the towel.

00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:54.960
I just wouldn't have anything to do with it.

00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:56.640
I wasn't gonna let it happen.

00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:03.440
You know, it was time to change things and modify things that so we could stay in business and keep those gates open.

00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:06.960
Generally speaking, that's the nature of the people in Flint.

00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:10.960
I mean, again, I I don't know many people that have just quit.

00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:18.319
I I know a couple that might have sold their businesses and and retired, but not that just said, forget I can't do it anymore.

00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:19.359
It's too difficult.

00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:20.960
Are you a Flintstone?

00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:24.319
I identify as a Flintstone, Arthur.

00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:26.240
Yes, absolutely.

00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.960
When you say you identify as a Flintstone, what does that mean?

00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:33.759
Obviously, you have an affinity for the city.

00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:34.880
I do.

00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:39.039
I mean, Flint's been really good to my family and me.

00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:45.359
You know, I've got great friends from Flint, and so it it is, it's in me.

00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:49.920
I want that same feeling to be passed along to Katie.

00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:52.640
And and I think she gets it as well.

00:25:52.880 --> 00:26:01.119
You know, you just hear about the history, you find yourself with a tie to it, and now with her her work there, even more so.

00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:03.119
I can't explain it, Arthur.

00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:05.279
I I don't know exactly what it is.

00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:09.440
Maybe it's maybe it's that going through those struggles with other people.

00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:12.960
I'm you know, I'm just not sure why that tie is like it is.

00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:27.839
You know, in 2000, when the term really got coined for Flint, was a group of kids from Flint went and won a national uh championship uh in the NCAA tournament, and they represented a certain thing for Flint.

00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:29.039
How did you see?

00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:34.319
How did you see those kids, Mateen Cleves and Morris Peterson and Charlie Bell?

00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:40.960
And I thought they did a great job of representing the city, showing the talent that that came out of it.

00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:47.680
And it never, you know, we get a lot, you know, from doing this radio show, you find a lot of stars from Flint, don't you?

00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:51.839
I mean, whether it be music or writers or or heroes.

00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:52.720
Exactly.

00:26:52.880 --> 00:27:05.359
Well, when you look at that group, that you know, they started calling themselves Flintstones, and what they represented uh was toughness, perseverance, strength, uh commitment.

00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:10.799
And they even got tattoos with the city of Flint on the side of their shoulder.

00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:11.920
I mean, on their shoulder.

00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:20.160
As I said earlier, my grandparents and my mother were born and raised basically on the, you know, off Court Street there.

00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:26.880
My grandfather used to say it's the only place where you can go from kindergarten through college in your own neighborhood.

00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:35.440
And when you think about that, you go off East Court Street and you can go all the way from kindergarten through college and in the same neighborhood.

00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:36.960
That's pretty unique.

00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:42.000
And then with the expansion of U of M downtown, that was critical.

00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:44.000
I mean, I think it's played a big role.

00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:58.319
And the demographic of downtown, you know, when I'm when I'm there and I go downtown to grab a sandwich's lunch, it looks a lot different than it did 20 years ago when you and I would go downtown for a sandwich.

00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:00.640
Now, Jerry, there are other assets in Flint.

00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:04.000
Tell me what you believe is an asset that's going to help Flint.

00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:19.920
Uh that may be something people haven't thought about or I think that the the Mod Foundation downtown and the fact that they have remained focused on Flint has been huge to us.

00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:26.559
If it weren't for their focus, we would be way behind where we are today.

00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:36.160
You know, I understand that the the chamber and the convention bureau and the the economic development type, they're all combined into one.

00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:48.480
And if it weren't for the Mod Foundation, I think a lot of those, a lot of those uh redevelopment efforts would have been kind of governed back just because of the flow of money from from wherever it might be coming from.

00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:50.079
They've been very resourceful.

00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:55.920
They're using low-income housing tax credits, they use new market tax credits, they use historical credits.

00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:02.319
The Mod Foundation will play an equity participation in some of these on some of these ventures.

00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:11.039
And they've also been able to, you know, to get the attention of investors or investments from companies.

00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:20.000
You know, I think they're working on a grocery store downtown right now that's going to be an investment of a of you know the private sector in downtown.

00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:24.480
But I think it helps to have the Mob Foundation out on the point on that.

00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:28.480
You know, it adds credibility to the downtown development efforts.

00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:32.319
Flint has other assets, its strategic location.

00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:41.440
Does does the fact that Flint's loc geographic location make a difference for it as it extends out into the next 50 years?

00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:42.799
Absolutely.

00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:50.640
As time goes on, the city and the community will be able to find different ways to exploit that more.

00:29:51.039 --> 00:30:02.960
One of the things that we're seeing a lot happening in the commercial investment or real estate business is this last mile delivery with warehousing for online merchandisers and what have you.

00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:09.200
Flint's location at that intersection of those interstates could play a big role with.

00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:11.359
We've got to see where that leads us.

00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:22.720
But certainly the distribution warehousing ideas, you know, during this COVID, it's really been a lot of fuel's been put on that fire because of the mere quantities.

00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:27.200
We got to get one of those big distributors to build a million square feet up in Flint.

00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:28.400
That's what we need.

00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:31.440
Yes.

00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:42.079
I think that the airports in communities like Flint often are underappreciated in the amount of economic stimulus that they can bring to the area.

00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:49.759
And in the case of Bishop Airport, I believe they've done a pretty good job of recognizing they can be an economic generator.

00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:53.279
You know, they've got a good bit of freight shipment out of there, of course.

00:30:53.680 --> 00:31:06.160
If you look at the future in Flint, you take, you know, you have a large philanthropic uh sector in Flint that actually has a lot of, I mean, it's got a headquarters of one of the largest foundations in the world.

00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:12.799
Taking all those assets, including the what the will of the people, where do you see all this headed?

00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:14.640
I mean, some people have written it off.

00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:20.160
I think as time goes on, exactly what industry it is, I don't know.

00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:23.839
But I think that Flint is getting ready for that.

00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:34.240
And they're getting ready for it by by way of the educational system that you that you speak of, the different universities and community colleges, talk about the transportation component to it.

00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:48.400
And again, if as we rebuild the infrastructure of Flint, I mean, fix some roads, fix some overpasses, and get rid of some old buildings, make it a little bit more pleasant to drive around the downtown and what have you.

00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:56.720
Just a matter of time, those those other businesses will start looking at it as potentially a destination to build at.

00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:03.839
Another sector which you've probably spent more time thinking about is the housing sector in uh the Flint area.

00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:07.200
Where do you see that going in the next decade or two?

00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:11.519
I see it coming back more towards the city of Flint.

00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:26.400
I think that you know, there's the the people that want to be out in Fenton and what have you, but I think that the revitalization of some of these neighborhoods close into Flint will provide more of an urban setting.

00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:39.119
I think will be conducive to the younger people being there within the city limits of Flint, live there for a lengthy period of time and not move to Grand Blanc or Fenton or where have you.

00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:40.799
That's my hope, anyhow.

00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:46.079
The cultural center also does that play a role in the housing market?

00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:48.319
I would imagine.

00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:53.200
I mean, it it certainly is a enhances the quality of life.

00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:57.279
Truly is amazing that over all these years it's maintained.

00:32:57.440 --> 00:32:58.960
So I would say yes.

00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:07.680
I mean, that that's a component to the decisions that people, decision-making processes people do that when they're deciding on where to live.

00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:18.799
Another reason why I think people will come back to the East Court Street area or the neighborhood behind us, I I think that there'll be a good reason to do that.

00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:24.240
My prediction is in the next 20 years, Katie will be running Michigan lost at Katie.

00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:33.200
That would be thank you, Arthur.