Nov. 1, 2022

George Winters — A Michigan Music Life: Flint, Davison & The Red Piano

A Michigan original. A musical storyteller. A man who made a lifetime of memories from behind a piano.

In this episode, we sit down with George Winters, the beloved “Red Piano Man” from Flint and Davison. George is a lifelong musician, entertainer, teacher, and creative force. His signature red electric piano has become a staple at community events, local concerts, senior centers, benefit performances, and neighborhood gatherings across Mid-Michigan.

George reflects on:
• His musical beginnings in Flint
• Performing everywhere from bars to churches to backyards
• What inspires him to keep bringing joy to people
• The meaning of local community arts in Michigan
• How the Flint/Davison area shaped his identity as a musician
• The people, mentors, and moments that built his sound

Warm, humble, and full of heart, George Winters represents the best of Michigan’s creative spirit — a man who used music to bring people together, one performance at a time.

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Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:00.880 --> 00:00:02.640
So we're recording this.

00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:09.679
This is Arthur Busch, you're listening to Radio Free Flint, and I have as my guest a very accomplished musician.

00:00:09.679 --> 00:00:11.359
George Winters, Welcome.

00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:12.240
I do.

00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:15.439
Hey, it's a pleasure to see you this morning.

00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:22.719
George is talking to me from I don't know, Davision, Michigan, home of Michael Moore and John Sinclair.

00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:26.559
So let's let George do what he does best, which is play music.

00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:29.519
This is a tune called C Jam.

00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:33.200
George Winter's the piano man from Davison, Michigan.

00:00:33.200 --> 00:02:02.640
Playing in our region.

00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:08.080
And I want to talk to you a little about your career, the music, how music scenes changed, what you think of Flint.

00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:09.680
Are you a Flintstone?

00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:10.240
Yeah.

00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:14.400
I was born, raised in Flint until high school, and then we moved to Flushing.

00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:16.879
So what does it mean to be a Flintstone?

00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:21.759
Something it's it's home and it's a it's an incredible place.

00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:22.400
I don't know.

00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:24.159
That's that's kind of a toughie actually.

00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:28.879
Just the people that you grew up with there, it's just a bond that you never lose.

00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:29.360
I don't know.

00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:32.400
Something about it coming back to Flint too is always home.

00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:38.960
After all the places I've been on the road, it's kind of amazing, you know, that you'd want to get back here, but you just do.

00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:43.039
If you had to describe Flint in one word, what would it be?

00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:43.840
Home.

00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:45.120
All right, I'll take that.

00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.120
How long have you been playing music?

00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:51.439
Let's see, since I was nine, so that's been what about 23 years?

00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:54.960
That's actually adding up quite a bit now.

00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:56.159
It's over 50 years.

00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:58.319
So you missed a couple decades.

00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:00.159
Yeah, yeah.

00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:02.639
Just so the audience knows.

00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:10.080
I mean, there's some that are my age that probably have watched you play in a club or someplace along the path in the Flint area.

00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:21.520
But uh just so that uh my audience who also comes to us from all other uh venues around the globe, tell us what kind of musician you are and what it is that that you do exactly.

00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:25.439
Well, uh it's probably not that definable in one word for sure.

00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:28.159
Like just a lot of things.

00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:36.479
Actually, uh mainly what I've been doing the last 23 years or something like that, 24 years, uh, is doing pianos.

00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:43.919
We do a lot of corporate events, and and I was doing them, I still do a little bit around the country even trying to get away from that.

00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:46.479
You know, uh I did it a lot for a while.

00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:50.240
In fact, for five years, it's been less than about four years ago.

00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:56.960
I kind of got out of that, but I was just full-time, I was crossing the Mississippi almost every week.

00:03:56.960 --> 00:04:07.039
I got I got home every week, which was cool, you know, for a few days, but it was just kind of crazy driving out there to Nebraska and you know, Kansas and North Dakota.

00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:10.719
I I make it from here to Fargo in 16 hours.

00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:17.839
Only time I stop is to get gas or a rest stop or one 15-minute stop, maybe a subway and boom.

00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:19.279
You play the piano.

00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:21.759
Yeah, do you play any other music?

00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:30.160
Yeah, I've I play um I picked up the guitar when I was about 16 and I kind of got a little more serious at it when I was 18.

00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:32.959
And then I I really worked hard at it for a long time.

00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:35.519
So I've been doing that, you know, ever since then.

00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:39.920
And I I play a little harmonica to get a hard shot at singing.

00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:44.160
Are you a solo or do you have a band that you travel with?

00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:50.160
Or what I do they do on pianos is typically with a partner, they call it so be two piano players.

00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:52.800
Most of the time anymore, I travel with local guys.

00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:56.800
If I travel or just play local gigs, I try to stay in Michigan.

00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:00.560
In fact, uh right at this point, right now, I have nothing else on the state.

00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:02.720
I just got back from a little big deal.

00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:09.360
I did a couple gigs in uh Indiana and then one in just north of Pittsburgh like a summer about a week ago.

00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:10.160
That was pretty cool.

00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:12.319
But hey, I've been doing something else kind of cool too.

00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:15.199
I just kind of fell into this thing with the sheriff.

00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:17.439
I don't know if you knew anything about this at all.

00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:20.720
The sheriff was saying, I don't know how many Bill Features you know.

00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:24.639
I want to be some people called me and they had a gig going on.

00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:30.879
Yeah, so we played that, and the sheriff got hold and he said he was gonna be thinking about doing a Bobby Sear tribute.

00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:35.360
I said, Really, I love Bob Search, so yeah, I I'd give it a shot, you know.

00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:39.040
So he wanted to be in these He got like a 10-piece band.

00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:44.959
And we've been rehearsing and we did our first gig last Saturday and Sag at a place called the Ball.

00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:47.439
He actually was a union haul.

00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:49.519
Oh, he's in the band too?

00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:53.199
He's yeah, not only is he in the band, he's a singer, the lead singer.

00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:57.279
And he's also a piano player too, but he just wants to sing.

00:05:57.279 --> 00:05:58.639
And uh that's cool.

00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:00.079
I mean, and he does a good job.

00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:03.600
I I was, you know, pleasantly surprised at how good he is.

00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:06.079
And he sounds a lot like Bob Seeger.

00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:08.240
And he looks a little bit like him.

00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:11.680
I don't know if you've seen his picture, he threw his beard out, he's got longer hair.

00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:16.959
I saw the clean cut picture when he wanted to be the sheriff, though.

00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:19.439
And uh he's been there quite a long time.

00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:25.040
I'm I'm kind of a patriotic guy, I love America, and I like to you know recognize his bad.

00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:31.120
So we do a little thing, you know, and and we get if we can, we do poke him up to the front of the stage.

00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:44.720
So we do that, and then then we do uh learn the fight song from the army fight song, interruptor, navy, air force, uh coast guard, and then uh of course the marine.

00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:45.680
It's a cool thing.

00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:48.000
And there's usually always a police officer there.

00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:55.600
So I would do like uh a little bit of I Pot the Law, get people to sing it, you know, I paw the law and boom, people singing all along.

00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:57.759
So let's talk about music.

00:06:57.759 --> 00:06:59.360
Let's hear some of your music.

00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:01.439
I think the audience would enjoy it.

00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:06.000
Here's uh red piano by George Winters from Davidson, Michigan.

00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:17.279
We'll play the song in its entirety and come back on the other side and talk some more about George's music and about the fun music scene and what he's learned after 50 years of being the piano man.

00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:56.879
I can tell that you felt for a fan.

00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:28.960
I'll say on my ready.

00:10:54.159 --> 00:11:04.080
So went to flushing high school and you grew up in uh well actually in Flint until 1969 graduated in 1974, so I did my high school in flushing.

00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:04.720
I see.

00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:07.039
And what neighborhood did you live in in Flint?

00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:10.240
It's right on Begole Street by Melbourne.

00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:12.480
Can I back you up a little bit just for a second here?

00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:13.200
Back to that Flint.

00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:14.159
Yeah, sure.

00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:17.600
When it went because I told you I lived on Gold Street by Melbourne.

00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:29.039
Well, my dad actually he when he came to Flint, the family came from uh Royal Oak, and his and he was a president of, they moved him up to president of Pudenties, insurance guy.

00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:32.240
Something happened, business wasn't doing as good as they expect.

00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:33.440
They wanted firing them.

00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:34.960
They didn't do him, they did him wrong.

00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:37.360
Anyhow, my dad was a great piano player.

00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:40.159
He went and he got a job selling organs.

00:11:40.159 --> 00:11:41.759
He loved organs, you know, anyhow.

00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:46.320
So he brings home an organ and he sets it in the living room and he's all proud of it.

00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:47.360
He's got this new job.

00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:51.279
He's like, I can have anybody playing both hands and a foot in five minutes.

00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:53.600
He says, You come here, and I was the baby of the family.

00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:54.879
So he sat me down.

00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:58.080
And uh, anyhow, I couldn't do it.

00:11:58.080 --> 00:11:59.600
I couldn't do it.

00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:00.799
So I kept doing it anyhow.

00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:05.360
I'll I'll finish this before I get to the other part, but I I couldn't do it, so I kind of let him down.

00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:06.639
I felt bad, I guess.

00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:09.120
And he left the thing there, and I just kept messing with it.

00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:10.960
Pretty soon I was getting so I was getting the hang of it.

00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:12.720
One day I'm like, Hey, yeah, come here, look at this.

00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:15.200
He's like, turned it on and started jamming.

00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:16.480
He's like, Oh, okay.

00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:25.759
But so then he anyhow, the the point of the story I'm trying to take this to is he wound up getting uh taken over the Hammond Orchestra, which was on Chevrolet and Mackin.

00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:34.000
And that was a very uh hobnob for uh Hammond B3s were the big thing in the late 60s, early 70s.

00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:35.519
All the rock bands had them.

00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:41.600
The bands that came to town, the IMA and stuff would they would their manager would get a hold of my dad, he'd run them a B3.

00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:44.799
We got to see a lot of bands backstage.

00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:46.320
Jethro Tall.

00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:47.679
We thought they were done with their concert.

00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:51.440
We ran back there to get the my brothers and me and my girlfriend at the time.

00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:57.120
We run back there to get the B3, and all them guys are sitting around kind of looking at us like, Who are these guys?

00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:58.559
And we just froze, you know.

00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:04.320
And then all of a sudden, they started playing their second set we watched from backstage, and that was incredible.

00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:06.480
Anyhow, I love Jeff O'Toole.

00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:08.639
Uh, my dad came home one night with this story.

00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:10.799
He says, Yes, hippie come in.

00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:12.639
He says, He's really classy, hippie.

00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:18.399
He says, He says, He had a ponytail, he said he had a sideburns, came down to his chin.

00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:26.720
He says, So you want to see a B3, and a B3 was like 3,500 bucks, plus you had to buy a Leslie was another thousand bucks or whatever, 900, you know.

00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:29.759
And uh, I want to see what he goes, yeah, right over here.

00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:32.720
And he says, the guy turned it on and bought it like a pack of cigarettes.

00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:34.879
He said, Have you ever heard of Grand Punk Railroad?

00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:36.559
At the time, I'd heard of them.

00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:39.039
They weren't really famous in Flint yet, you know.

00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:41.600
He goes, Well, the guy bought this thing, we're gonna deliver it.

00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:43.039
You want to you want to go with us?

00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:44.399
I'm like, sure, you know.

00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:47.919
So we went to Mark Farner's house out in London.

00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:50.320
It was outside of town, just off London road.

00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:53.759
But anyhow, went in there, brought that B3 out there.

00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:57.200
When we pulled in the driveway, this guy came out of the house.

00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:02.159
He's a big after, he's about nine foot tall, and you know, got in his link in and took off.

00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:03.440
It was Don Brewer.

00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:08.240
I didn't know that at the time, but he was so under such a distinct looking character.

00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:09.759
I just still see him in my mind.

00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:14.639
But anyhow, we went in there and met Mark Farner, and he got that B3, and we brought it over there.

00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:19.039
And as soon as we left, he started playing and he he broke footstone for music.

00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:24.000
Danny McClain was an organ player, and I was big time into uh baseball.

00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:31.440
But anyhow, my dad uh uh says to me, Denny McClain McClain is coming to town at the IMA for something, I'm gonna go meet him.

00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:32.320
And I kind of laughed.

00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:33.200
I'm like, yeah, right.

00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:34.879
You know, good luck that, you know.

00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:37.200
Next day he has the guy at my house, okay.

00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:38.480
And oh, Denny McClain.

00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:39.679
And I had him my mit.

00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:42.320
And Denny wasn't that friendly to me, to be honest with you, remember.

00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:44.159
I was like, okay, whatever.

00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:52.720
Now, Denny McClain was often seen playing at the Shorthorn Lounge in Flint's on Dort Highway near court.

00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:54.799
Did you ever play that lounge?

00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:55.519
I did.

00:14:55.519 --> 00:15:01.519
In fact, uh, more after it, after it was done, uh, you know, after the heyday, I played there a little bit.

00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:05.120
In fact, the guy that owned it, he had taken it back a couple times.

00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.600
And I told him, I said, I'd love to own a club like this.

00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:09.120
I wish I had a little more money, you know.

00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:10.320
And he goes, you know what?

00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:13.679
He says, I I I like the idea of an entertainer owning this place.

00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:20.799
He says, uh, I might just like sell you this place, let you pay me out until he started telling me some of the numbers that it used to do, and they're amazing.

00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:23.919
George, how did you first get interested in music?

00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:28.080
Was it the story with the organ or was it something something else?

00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:40.240
Yeah, I think it was that, and I don't know why I I I often have scratched my head to why I glued to it like I did, but I just I it was when I was really young, like back then, that was middle sixties.

00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:44.159
Uh, it was it was organ and baseball.

00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:46.080
That was my two things, you know.

00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:53.120
So, George, let's listen to a different one of your songs with a mood synthesizer and your Hammond B3 organ.

00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:56.639
This one's called Heaven since we're talking about flip.

00:15:56.639 --> 00:19:22.400
George, you uh have spanned quite a long time.

00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:28.079
You said you've been a musician for 50 years, and I can only think of a few others that are still at it.

00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:36.319
So I think that Jimmy Zimbo, who's also out there still trotting around with his fingers on the keyboards, Bob Ado, who don't know what this too is.

00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:40.480
Jimmy is actually working for a company that I've been doing sales for.

00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:41.920
He went down there and helping.

00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:44.160
I've been selling piano shells.

00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:46.400
Uh, I don't know if you know what a piano shell is.

00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:48.640
It looks it's furniture, it looks like a piano.

00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:53.119
You put a keyboard in it, they make different sizes, and we've been selling them all over the world.

00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:57.279
And when I got off the road, I tell you, I was on the road for like five years solid.

00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:58.960
I was kind of looking for something.

00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:04.880
He offered me a job selling for him, and I I didn't think it was gonna turn into much thing, and it's just kind of taking off.

00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:09.839
You played a lot of joints in the Flint area over those 50 years, if that's what it is.

00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:12.000
Yes, tell me your favorites.

00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:16.000
You know, I think I I love Bosleys, I really love Bosleys.

00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:20.000
That was like a home, and Doug Bosley was uh such a great guy to me.

00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:28.000
I mean, I could can't even tell you he was like he looked out for me like nobody really ever did in that kind of business, you know, for that long.

00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:28.720
That's amazing.

00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:34.319
I had raised my family basically working for him and also for John too at the speakeasy.

00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:43.279
He was also very cool, and um talking about John and Marianne Barnadelli and flushing, yes, at the speakeasy that was a great spot, it was.

00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:46.559
Yes, and and and I love them people too, they're just super good.

00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.319
There's gotta be some old ones, like maybe the fireside, yeah.

00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:53.759
Like you, you know, I was just funny you said that because that's what I was gonna say next.

00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:59.200
And actually, I played at the fireside and the Bob Badato trio back in the 70s.

00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:06.960
Uh yeah, in fact, in fact, and too, another thing about Bob just I mean, he's always been one of my heroes, and one of my favorite sax players.

00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:11.839
In fact, I did an uh album that had him play sax on it, and it's worldwide.

00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:13.759
You can dial it in anywhere and check it out.

00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:19.039
We didn't talk about one of my favorites of all time, which is Jimmy Lump's Aloha Lounge.

00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:20.079
Did you ever play that one?

00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:20.799
You know what?

00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:24.160
I never really I think I did play a couple off nights, I think.

00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:28.160
About I've forgotten that, but I used to go in there, it was just a cool place.

00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:35.599
You know, you're talking about how things you mentioned earlier about you know, how things are they are and I see to me, it's not like that at all.

00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:40.079
It used to be where you play someplace six nights a week, have a house gig, they call it.

00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:41.759
And some of these guys still want to do that.

00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:44.319
They're like, hey, we should get together and have a house gig.

00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:46.559
I don't they don't do that anymore.

00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:47.920
It just doesn't happen.

00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:50.000
Why isn't it popular anymore?

00:21:50.400 --> 00:22:01.039
I think if you want my take, I'm just a piano player and got my own little point of view, but I just think times change and and people were really into live music for a long time.

00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:09.200
And I know, like, I had my trailer worked on, and it was right by this country bar out in the decline, and I drove by there and they turned it into a dispensary.

00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:13.440
So I I mentioned it to this kid that was working on my he said, Did you ever go there?

00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:16.319
And and he's like, uh, no, he says, I never went there.

00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:17.920
He says, My dad did that kind of stuff.

00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:19.200
I've never been in that at all.

00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:22.880
And that's I think that the younger generation is a lot like that.

00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:26.559
They've never bought an album because they stream it.

00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:31.359
Another thing is what was really fascinating, I got remarried out almost 20 years ago.

00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:33.279
My wife had daughters.

00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:40.079
I took them on a field trip down to Sloan Museum, and I hadn't been there since I was a kid, and I was fascinated.

00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:42.559
I couldn't, they want run run through the place.

00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:46.079
I'm reading everything about how Flint became a boom town.

00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:50.960
You know, people moved up here from the south to be get rich in the in the auto plant.

00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:52.880
You know, I mean, just things were a lot different.

00:22:52.880 --> 00:23:00.960
Things were it seems like you always knew somebody, just about everybody was affiliated with somebody that worked for General Motors.

00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:03.920
You know, it's just that because I thought all right then.

00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:08.000
Let's take just a moment to one stretch your legs.

00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:15.359
This one's an up tempo song called Lucky by George Winters of Davison, Michigan.

00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:03.680
It was a great time.

00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:07.119
It was a nice mix, too, because between Flint and Flushing.

00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:08.640
What is it about flushing?

00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:10.240
Because people do really love flushing.

00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.559
I don't ever talk to anybody who says, Oh, it sucks.

00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:16.079
I can tell you what I like about flushing, which is the AW.

00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:16.799
Okay.

00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:21.599
You got good popcorn, and there's something about their hot dogs I really like.

00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:23.599
And the room is not bad either.

00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:26.960
Maybe it was the time, it was just a cool place.

00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.480
Going to school there, there was a guy that was the art teacher.

00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:32.400
Yeah, Wolfgang was his name.

00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:34.880
Everybody knew that guy, Richard Wolfgang.

00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:36.960
Everybody knew him, but he was a great guy.

00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:38.640
He motivated a lot of music.

00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:41.200
He was really into music, he played banjo.

00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:42.640
We'd have jam sessions.

00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:51.119
I think I think I did have him, I did take one art class, but even when I wasn't his class, he had me bring a piano down on Friday sometimes and just jam, you know.

00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:56.960
When he retired from flushing, eventually he ended up in a gallery, bought a gallery on Mackinac Island.

00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:01.440
Wolfgang did the posters for the Mackinac Lila Festival.

00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:04.000
They're collector's items now.

00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.039
To his place there, his gallery, actually, a few times.

00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:21.039
And what was really interesting too is he had like you're talking about, he made the the the artwork he did for up there, and I come back down here and I seen it like where the holiday innocent or the gateway holiday in there in Hill Road.

00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:24.720
They had it hanging in there, and I seen it a few other places too.

00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:26.000
It was just amazing, you know.

00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:37.359
It's like uh it's almost like seeing Craig Frost, you know, music tours, you know, round the pre stuff, which was kind of cool because I knew that guy back way back when, you know, but he played with Bob Seeker.

00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:41.839
So besides growing up in flushing, you've played in a lot of places around the country.

00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:45.279
What when you tell people you're from Flint, what do they have to say about that?

00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:47.519
Well, that's actually what I was gonna say a minute ago.

00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:49.279
So I was out west.

00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:55.599
I hate to say it, but you know, I got traveled with this one guy from Phoenix, and you know, people say, Where are you guys from?

00:26:55.599 --> 00:27:01.759
Well, I'm from Flint, you know, because you want to you don't want to say Davidson or Flushing or something, because they mostly never heard of it.

00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:04.400
Yeah, but you say Flint, oh okay, where are you from?

00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:04.960
Phoenix.

00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:13.359
They just they just grab it, they turn they'd ignore me a lot of times, you know, it's like you're from Flint, but you know, and then they joke a lot too about the water, you know.

00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:14.640
You got good water?

00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:15.839
Yeah, I have a well.

00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:18.400
Dueling piano thing.

00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:22.799
I first found out about that in San Antonio, Texas on the riverwalk.

00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:33.680
I've been there, beautiful place, but the concepts spread around the country, like most of the piano bars, like Rum Runners Down to Lance, right by right across from where the lug nuts played.

00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:38.079
It was like very high traffic area, JD's key club down to Pontiac.

00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:46.400
It was when downtown Pontiac was really booming, and there's a lot of people there, just population coming in from all the little suburbs.

00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:55.200
It wasn't really Pontiac people, but so and the same thing with Mojo still does good out in uh Grand Rapids because they have the right demographic.

00:27:55.200 --> 00:28:08.319
I didn't play down there much when I was young, a little bit, but mostly I got I got to know the city a lot more in my older age, like after the speakeasy days, even especially doodle and pianos, because that kind of took off, you know.

00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:10.480
And there's a few places that opened up.

00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:14.319
We used to do another one on Haggerty and Fort 14 Mile.

00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:16.079
It's called Good Fellows.

00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:18.319
And uh, and that place jammed.

00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:20.400
It was big and it was packed all the time.

00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:24.160
I remember the owner was a super nice guy, he was a builder, he made his money building.

00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:29.440
He bought that place, and he says, he says, You want to make a lot of money, don't buy a duel and piano.

00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:30.480
I'm looking around.

00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.920
I don't understand, you know, you get a cover charge, you know.

00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:41.599
A lot of the musicians I talk to, and he and even ones that are known nationally, they do a lot of these gigs like you're talking about.

00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:45.680
Once they reach a certain age, they don't really want to play clubs if they can avoid it.

00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:50.319
And so they start playing houses and house parties and garden parties and all that.

00:28:50.319 --> 00:28:52.000
Is that a natural progression?

00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:55.039
Maybe, and especially with the way things have gone.

00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:58.960
Like I say, it's not like the live music isn't five, six nights a week.

00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:00.799
People don't just go to see it like that.

00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:08.480
But there is still, I think since the shutdown, people have realized they want to do, they just want to live life more, they want to go see it.

00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:14.640
Um, it's been playing these piano shows, and it's nothing to do with me because dueling pianos is not personal.

00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:18.319
It's they'll say, we're gonna sell do we're gonna have a dueling piano gig.

00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:20.240
It could be any two guys, really.

00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:22.799
So it's you know, I can't really take the credit for selling them out.

00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:27.359
It's not because of me, it's dueling pianos, it's uh shtick, you know, and people like it.

00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:27.759
It's fun.

00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:34.400
Yeah, no, some of those people that are dueling pianos, they start dancing around on top of their pianos and all kinds of crazy stuff.

00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:43.440
Yeah, that's an interesting thing you brought up because when I was working at Rum Runners, uh, I asked some people one night, some of the recorders, I said, Who do you think's a good piano player?

00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:44.079
I'm just curious.

00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:45.759
And they they named off a couple people.

00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:51.759
I said, I didn't think they were that good, but I, you know, I comparatively speaking, you know, on a music level, whatever.

00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:53.599
But I said, Why do you like them?

00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:58.079
And they said, Well, I like the one guy because he gets up on top of the piano.

00:29:58.079 --> 00:29:59.759
But you know, people.

00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:01.839
They listen with their eyes.

00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:06.079
So if you can give them a show, that's kind of you know, it's a showy thing.

00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:07.599
It's just not a personal thing.

00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:13.599
It's like I can do this, you know, command and do the song and do the command and get the audience to do that.

00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:14.720
You can do it.

00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:16.079
Joe Blow can do it.

00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:16.960
Anyone can do it.

00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:19.519
It's just if you do it right, it works.

00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:22.480
So it's a formula kind of thing, and it's not personal.

00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:26.160
It's not, I went from playing Bosley, speak easy, playing a lot of dinner music.

00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:28.880
You know, my hands were in good shape when I got into it.

00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:33.359
I'd play licks that you know would impress me and nobody would even notice.

00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:35.440
Not even, they just wouldn't even notice.

00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:42.319
But as soon as you start really, you know, doing this kind of stuff, you know, they're like, Oh, look at this, look at this guy, you know, it could be just one note.

00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:43.839
You know.

00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:50.160
So the the performative part of this business that you've gotten yourself into, you're pretty good at.

00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:53.279
You were always a little more performative than some of them other guys.

00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:57.519
Although, I mean, you take watch a guy like Zimbo, he knows how to work the crowd.

00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:00.400
He has a knack with people and a great voice.

00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:07.039
Well, it's funny because we've got a little bit in a competition because he's there and I'm here, you know, I know he sings great and all that.

00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:13.440
People, a lot of people might not realize him and me actually traveled in a rock and roll band before any of that stuff happened.

00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:20.960
I've no uh it's like I have another lifetime before with you know before all that stuff even happened, you know, and he was part of it.

00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:24.319
You're from Flint, you've seen a lot of changes over the years.

00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:28.000
You've gone from some of the heydays of the rock bands from Flint.

00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:34.480
We didn't talk much about your rock your experience as a rock star, but um you've seen a lot of things come and go.

00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:38.640
Mostly it was going for General Motors, and that changed significantly.

00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:43.279
How did General Motors going change Flint and a music scene as far as you were concerned?

00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:47.519
Uh I just think that uh the money was not there anymore.

00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:52.400
People didn't have the security, the money, a lot of people left town.

00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:55.759
I mean, the the population has diminished quite a bit, I think.

00:31:55.759 --> 00:32:00.000
Plus, along with the times changing too, like I say, people now.

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:11.440
If you ever go in a bar, too, you ever notice that most of them have like 25 TVs everywhere you look, and they got cage fighting, they got hockey, they got just it's all action.

00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:14.240
It's hard to people don't seem to.

00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:17.680
I think that between their phones and all that stuff, it's harder for them to focus.

00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:21.839
George winners, I really appreciate taking the time to talk to me.

00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:23.359
Goodbye for now.

00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:23.839
All .

00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:25.680
Thank you very much.