April 5, 2022

Flintstones: Whats in a Nickname?

What does it mean to be a Flintstone?

Rustbelt Flint, Michigan, residents and expatriates, call themselves Flintstones. They discuss their community identity and its rust belt revival.

Podcast guests include Judge Duncan M. Beagle, Sandra Branch of the Flint Public Art Project, John Daly of the City of Flint Department of Transportation, Cindy Johns of Carriage Town Ministries, and Rico Phillips, a retired Flint Firefighter.

This podcast explores the unusual adoption of a community identity taken by people from rust belt Flint, Michigan. We explore the origins of this identity and delve into what it means for the future of the factory town. To many Flintstones, Flint represents the resilient middle America that will see a rust belt revival. Is a rust belt revival possible while maintaining the blue-collar way of life?

Can there be a Rust Belt Revival in Flint?

Many Flintstones see rust belt Flint, and its blue-collar workers, as having made it possible for rank and file factory workers to have a life in America's middle class. They fought for union recognition and worker rights to fair wages and working conditions.

Indeed, the resilience they sincerely believe is part of their factory town DNA. Flintstones believe there is going to be a rust belt revival in Flint. Working class Flint, Michigan, according to podcast interviews, thinks the town will shed the factory worker image and recover as the rest of middle America has done.

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The music heard in this episode is performed by singer-songwriter Colton Ort and played with his permission.

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Transcript

WEBVTT

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Free Flint.

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Thank you for joining us.

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I'm Arthur Bush, your host.

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Today's topic is what is a Flintstone?

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Why do people refer to themselves as Flintstones?

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And where does it come from?

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All this and more in our episode today.

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First person I talked to is Cindy Johns of Carriage Town Ministry.

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Cindy's a lifelong resident of Flintstone.

00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:20.800
And I asked her if she was a Flintstone.

00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:22.559
And if she was, what does it mean?

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You know, there's a lot of people in Flint that that refer to themselves as I have.

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What's that mean?

00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:29.760
I don't know.

00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:32.719
Are you a Flintstone?

00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:37.520
I I assumed it just meant you were from Flint, though, but that's all I know.

00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:38.960
No, I asked you a question.

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Are you a Flintstone?

00:00:40.799 --> 00:00:42.399
Um, so what's the term mean?

00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:44.000
Is it just mean you're from Flint?

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It derived from this group of boys that played, young men that played at Michigan State University in 2000 and won the national championship.

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And the national media started this narrative about them and their town as being tough, resilient, hardworking, and they were winners.

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That's where the term started.

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Now the town has taken that as an identity of some sort.

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You're the only one I've asked out of about 115 people that didn't say they were a Flintstone.

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I just didn't know the term.

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Okay, so let me ask it again.

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Are you a Flintstone?

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I would say yes.

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I would say yes.

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I'm cut from that same resilient, hardworking stock of Flint.

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Is that how you would describe the city, or would you use other words?

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Um, in addition to that, I would probably grit Flint has struggled, but it's home.

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It is turning around, is being successful, innovative.

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I see innovation coming in downtown Flint.

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So Flint is going to be prosperous again.

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You're confident of that.

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I think so.

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The next person I talked to was Tennessee County Circuit Judge Duncan Beagle.

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Duncan Beagle discussed what a Flintstone was and where it might have started from, and surprisingly, even talks about helping these uh young Flint basketball players at the very start of their careers.

00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:11.919
Duncan Beagle gave his opinion about what a Flintstone is and also discusses whether he was a Flintstone himself.

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Duncan, you've helped a lot of kids and mentored a lot of kids along the way, especially athletes.

00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:22.000
Some of the more memorable ones for our entire community.

00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:28.240
We have all our favorites and we had some great moments watching uh high school athletics.

00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:36.159
But we had a crew in 2000 that played who I think is one of the greatest coaches in the history of the college game, Tom Izzo.

00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:40.479
And we had four young men that went down to Michigan State and played for Izzo.

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Knew those people.

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You know, it's funny.

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I uh when I was a practicing lawyer, I sponsored some uh uh youth teams.

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We called them the Legal Beagles.

00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:59.919
We had a Beagle dog in the front of their shirts, but one of the teams I sponsored just happened to have an 11-year-old kid by the name of Teen Cleves, and one of his friends by the name of Robert Smith, who ended up in the National Football.

00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:02.719
As a result of that, I got to know those folks.

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There was Robert's brother, Antonio Smith.

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There was Charlie Bell, who's a Southwestern, of course, Morris Peterson, whose father was an education.

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And I think one of the best memories I have is not only following those guys all that year, tremendous pride they gave to the community, but at the spur of the moment, I got two guys and we went down to Indianapolis for the national championship game, not knowing whether we would get any tickets or not.

00:03:26.319 --> 00:03:27.520
We were able to get tickets.

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We uh went to the game, and I couldn't sleep.

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The next morning I went down to the hotel lobby where somebody had given us a first person I ran into was Tom Izzo about six o'clock in the morning because he was gonna do all the morning uh talk show.

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Uh had a chance to talk to him for about 10 minutes, and uh it was just one of those great memories where Flint was just being highlighted.

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You were very, very proud of those four young men from Flint, Michigan.

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Those guys became known as the Flintstones.

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Where did that come from?

00:03:55.680 --> 00:03:58.960
People called themselves Flint Hoids, I remember.

00:03:59.120 --> 00:03:59.439
Yeah.

00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:03.599
And Flintstones, I don't know, I don't remember it before then, do you?

00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:15.680
Uh I it may have come from the cartoon character, and I can still remember somebody around town that uh did a sketch of uh the Flintstones and incorporated uh our four basketball players into it.

00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:21.439
I don't know if that's exactly where it came from, but as you well know, there's stories that go around the community.

00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:22.879
But what a great nickname.

00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:27.839
People still talk about that when uh when they talk about the history of basketball, especially college basketball.

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They'll go back to 2000, those four young men from Flint, Michigan.

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Those guys, they represented something to the people of Michigan, and especially to Flint.

00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:38.560
What was that they think they represented?

00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:42.319
You know, the interesting thing were four high schools in the community at that time.

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As I recall, I think they attended three out of the four high schools.

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Uh so the entire community uh from each of those schools uh really took a lot of pride.

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As I recall, I think two of them had educators in their family.

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I think Charlie Bell and uh and Morris Peterson.

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Mateen Cleves had uh father and mother that were well known around town.

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So I I just uh it was one of those things I think we latched onto.

00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:12.240
Uh the other thing, you know, when you think about Clint historically, it was work hard, play hard type community, a lot of blue-collar people.

00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:14.079
And that's the way those guys played the game.

00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:19.759
If you knew anything at all about Mateen Cleves, boy, I'll tell you what, he was a born natural leader.

00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:26.079
He didn't become successful in the NBA, but in terms of a leader, you wouldn't have found a better one than Mateen Cleves.

00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:28.319
Yeah, well, he he was the number one draft pick.

00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:29.920
Yeah, and that's that's so bad.

00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:42.959
Toughness and the uh strength that they represented and the determination uh came to represent to Flint exactly what it means to be a Flintstone, not just on a basketball court, but in life.

00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:44.319
I'll tell you one other thing.

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I'm uh talking to some of the coaches and athletic directors, and we're gonna try and create a Flintstone classic uh for the beginning of uh high school basketball and see if there's any interest.

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And one of the reasons for it is to keep that uh uh that history alive so a lot of young people realize uh what these gentlemen were all about.

00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:09.759
What I've also experienced doing this podcast and talking to as many people as I have is that there are people now that refer to themselves as flintstones.

00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:10.639
I think that's true.

00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:12.639
It's transcended sports.

00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:13.759
I think it has.

00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:15.600
What's it mean to be a flintstone?

00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.319
That's a good question in a in a bigger sense of the word.

00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:21.040
What what is it that a flintstone means?

00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:23.839
And let me start out by asking, are you a flintstone?

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Absolutely.

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I think it's uh pride in your community, hard work, because every one of those guys worked in a trade and they all became uh successful.

00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:34.959
But I think it was their style of play.

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They were dedicated to their family and community, and they represented a community that they just knew how to if you remember the Pistons.

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I think they had that uh image with Ben Wallace, uh Lamb Beer, and some of those guys about that uh bring your lunch bucket and it's time to go to work.

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And I think all of them came from working families, and I think a lot of people in Flint, you know, certainly recognize I agree with Duncan Beagle that the Flintstones, original Flintstones, for the young men, all from Flint, who joined the Michigan State University basketball team in the late 1990s.

00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:14.319
In 2000, of course, their Michigan State University team won the NCAA national championship for men's basketball.

00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:20.959
The Spartan basketball players had Flint tattooed on their upper arms with a basketball above it.

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As they became known, several of the MSU Flintstones attended the same elementary school in Flint early as Beagle made reference and played AAU basketball together.

00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:37.600
The Flintstone basketball players believed their brand of basketball embodied the values of their hometown.

00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:43.839
Flint's values and their minds were hard work, toughness, resilience, and determination.

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In fact, basketball coach Tom Izzo at Michigan State is quoted in national publications about the quote unquote culture the Flintstones brought to the locker room in East Lansing.

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Izzo likes the toughness that the kids from Flint brought to his basketball teams.

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These young men were champions.

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The Flintstones were winners.

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It had been a long time in Flint since it was a winner at much of anything except high school sports.

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The other Flintstones, not on the basketball team, drew from the basketball Flintstones the notion that they could be winning in their own walks of life.

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That is what Flintstones do.

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The other Flintstones believe that Flint was once a great city where winners are born.

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The former residents want to return Flint to its former glory.

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In essence, they want to go back home to that place in time and in their memories to a golden age.

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Seemingly, in the view of many Flint expatriates, the Flint in their head still exists.

00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:49.840
My next guest is Jeffrey the Valley, who is a gospel Grammy winner from Flint.

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He shares with us what it means to him to Jeffrey the Valley.

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Let me ask you one last question.

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Are you a Flintstone?

00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:56.559
Yeah.

00:08:56.799 --> 00:08:58.080
What does that mean to you?

00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:00.159
What does it mean to be a Flintstone?

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A Flint is a hard substance.

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When you you talk about a Flint, you can start a fire with Flint.

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It's a hard substance with a hard that can stand up against on its own.

00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:25.279
And Flint to me, you know, with all the Flint has been through, with the loss of General Motors and with the water crisis, we're still standing.

00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:31.120
No, I was not born here.

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I was born in Milwaukee, but I spent most of my life in the city of Flint.

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And I love, I repeat, love this city.

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I think it's a wonderful place to live.

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It's a wonderful place to raise a family.

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It's a wonderful place to make friends.

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It's a wonderful place to become involved in the uh art and doing whatever you want to do.

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You don't have to leave Flint.

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Right here, it's a wonderful place.

00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:12.799
What seems to have followed after more than 20 years after the Michigan State University's Spartan basketball team won the national championship is a regional identity tied to Flint's real or imagined blue-collar culture.

00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:20.320
By the end of 2021, I had interviewed well over 125 people for the Radio Free Flint Podcast.

00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:25.919
The audience for this podcast includes many people who have long since moved away from Flint area.

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While talking with many expatriates, I sensed an unusual affinity with their homeland in the Flint area.

00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:34.960
Their responses were baffling.

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Even as someone who spent nearly all my life in Flint, what I expected to hear the anger, bitterness, and self pity the town experienced over the last five decades.

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When asking the guests if they were Flintstones, ninety nine point five percent answered yes.

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It mattered not if they were young, old, wealthy, poor, Republicans, or Democrats.

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One gentleman raised in South Texas even said he was a Texas Flintstone.

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The Flintstone identity was enthusiastic and close to universal.

00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:14.080
Their belief is that Flintstones of today are optimistic and highly confident about the future of Flint.

00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:17.200
The residents have endured many economic downturns.

00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:20.559
Flint's history shows the city will survive.

00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:30.320
This common identity takes on a life of its own because the people I interviewed, former or current residents, are resilient and have what it takes to survive.

00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:38.799
Flintstones also display firm beliefs that they can fix the problems facing the troubled town by themselves if necessary.

00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:47.919
The only question I have is are these Flintstones hoping to fix the town that exists in their heads or the one that everybody can see today unboose?

00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:56.240
The Flint expatriates developed an extraordinarily strong self concept associated with so called Flint values.

00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:04.000
The values of the former and current Flint residents centered around loyalty, hard work, toughness, and resilience.

00:12:04.159 --> 00:12:07.840
These Flintstones believed their values were part of the fabric of Flint.

00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:20.000
During the interviews they often said they developed their Flintstone character because they are from the best analogy perhaps comes from the world of athletics, something for which Flint is well known nationally.

00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:25.440
Flintstone's identification with Flint appears to be akin to that of sports fans.

00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:35.279
Many sports fans stay profoundly true to their teams, at times widely so, even though they live far away in towns and cities across the nation.

00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:45.519
The Flintstones proudly display Flintstone t shirts and hats, and some even go as far as to put tattoos with Flint emblazoned on their bodies.

00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:48.240
It all seems so complicated to understand.

00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:55.279
Why do grown people so strongly identify with a declining rust belt city they left behind a go?

00:12:55.600 --> 00:13:13.039
What has followed in all these years, in spite of all of the problems that Flint has experienced through its many economic downturns, is a history that shows the Flintstones have a firm belief that they can fix the problems troubling Flint themselves.

00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:20.799
My next guest is Rico Phillips, who is a former Flint Fire Department fireman and also works for the Ontario hockey.

00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:29.120
And he shares with us his views about what is a lot of people in the Flint area, necessarily the boundary, but a lot of people in Flint area, they identify as Flintstone.

00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:29.519
Yeah.

00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:31.759
Do you identify as a Flintstone?

00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:34.080
I absolutely identify as a Flintstone.

00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:52.559
In fact, in my acceptance speech of my award in Las Vegas, I said out of way flintstone, trying to say flintstones to my flintstones, and all kinds of words came out, but that's what I I the reason I say flintstones, like when I think of a flintstone, it's hard and it's it's resilient, it's it stands the test of time.

00:13:52.720 --> 00:14:01.200
And I think when I think of not just folks that I've worked alongside of, but the mentality of a lot of the people here, like you're gonna keep kicking at us.

00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:09.440
Anybody who's from Flint knows we can talk crap about our city if we want, but if you say one bad word about Flint, we're ready to go down with you, right?

00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:12.080
Because that's that Flintstone mentality.

00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:19.039
Part of the Flint character, according to the Flintstones, is it's marked primarily by its resilience.

00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:24.240
There have been several books written that explore the culture of the American Rust Belt communities.

00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:29.279
Several of these elegies, like eulogies, are usually backwards looking.

00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:35.039
Elegies sentimentally look back at people and places as if they were dead or dying.

00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:39.840
Let me assure you that the Flintstones see Flint as very much alive.

00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:50.320
The podcast interviews I conducted reveal a distinct culture in Flint that has as its baseline values extraordinary resilience and commitment to purpose.

00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:56.879
Flintstones have a history of overcoming hard times and challenges when it looks as if all is lost.

00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:07.679
More importantly, they are not giving up any time soon on reclaiming their place as significant contributors to the American economy, its culture, and national life.

00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:12.720
What is it in Flint Michigan's air that gives people the audacity to hope?

00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:18.559
What is it that makes Flintstone so confident their town will not meet the fate of so many other ghost towns?

00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:21.840
Is this just a part of unrealistic thinking in Flint?

00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:30.159
In the past, it took the disappearance of entire auto factory for some of these hard workable could understand that the factories would be no more.

00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:36.480
Does Flint Michigan have something embedded in its culture that gives the people an extra gear of adaptability?

00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:42.399
Do the Flintstones have some magical ability to roll with the punches of their roller coaster economy?

00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:43.679
This much is clear.

00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:47.840
Failure is not an option for the people who call themselves Flintstones.

00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.399
I will leave you to your own conclusions about Flint.

00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:57.200
However, the inferences I reach based on the evidence sended a more hopeful side to the people who America feels.

00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:03.759
The research in fact show a high probability of more sunrises and sunsets in Flint's future.

00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:11.200
Despite all the grim news of vanishing General Motors and put poisoned water, there is resilience in Flint, Michigan.

00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:13.759
The toughness of the Flintstones is epic.

00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:21.759
Like its name, Flint has a strength of spirit that is part and parcel of the culture of the people in this working class enclave.

00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:37.679
Flint, as the hard stone is called, is from which to spark a fire in the history of From all we can see and imagine, the devastating loss of manufacturing jobs has perhaps made no more profound impact on any city than it has in Flint, Michigan.

00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:42.879
More than eighty percent of its modern day high paying General Motors jobs have vanished.

00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:47.600
The region lives in good measure on the handsome pensions and medical benefits of its auto work.

00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:56.399
That gravy train has rolled on without fail since Buick, Chevrolet, and General Motors were all found in Flint about one hundred and twenty five years ago.

00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:03.759
The Flint area gets poorer one day at a time as these workers die and their General Motors pensions and benefits are no more.

00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:08.799
The money that once circulated with great velocity no longer feeds many of Flint's children.

00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:13.680
It is a town whose child poverty rates rival those of some third world countries.

00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:23.599
GM money no longer feathers the nest as it once did for the local auto repair facility, the doctor, the dentist, auto dealers, or any of hundreds of businesses.

00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:25.920
As you look at Flint, it's cultural.

00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:30.480
Some people describe it, describe themselves with strong identity to the place.

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I mean, it's it's remarkable.

00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:43.359
Next is John Daly, the transportation director for the city of Flint, longtime public works administrator in Genesee County, was the head of the Genesee County Road Commission for his thoughts.

00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:44.960
My wife is a Viking.

00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:45.200
Yes.

00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:47.680
My question to you is are you a Flintstone?

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I'm a Flintstone by marriage and by choice.

00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:52.960
If you're a Flintstone, what does that mean?

00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:59.599
It means, first of all, that I put am especially concerned about the needs of the community, the residents thereof.

00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:07.519
And then the second thing is that I recognize that there's kind of a gestalt in, if you would, in the community that makes it different.

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This community is different.

00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:10.319
That doesn't mean it's easy.

00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:11.359
It just means it's different.

00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:13.759
In some aspects, it's significantly harder.

00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:14.880
It's resilient.

00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:21.599
I mean, most communities that if today if they have been through what we've been through, I think would have collapsed.

00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:27.599
There is an inner resilience in the residents of Flint that they want to see this community move forward.

00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:29.359
And that's going to require leadership.

00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:30.559
It won't be easy.

00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:34.400
The path needs to be realistic, and it's one that needs to be shared.

00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:38.640
There was a Flint before it was the birthplace of General Motors, and there'll be a Flint.

00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:41.279
General Motors will always have a presence in Flint.

00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:47.759
I mean, clearly the number, its impact will change just as the automobile industry has changed.

00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:54.079
If we learn one lesson that has come out of the situation we've been in, I think is don't be too dependent on any one thing.

00:18:54.400 --> 00:19:02.880
I want to take you now to Sandra Branch, who is the vice president of the Flint Public Art Project for some kind of Flint is very resilient.

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It's in our name, Flint.

00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:09.119
You take two Flintstones, and we call ourselves Flintstones.

00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:19.359
It's in humanity, the creativity.

00:20:11.279 --> 00:21:11.039
We look at people I put my faith in I put my faith in the people in the community.

00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.240
I put my faith in the point.

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I put my faith in the fact that we are really still and we have the will to make it.

00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:32.799
And I put our future in the hands of the parents and the children that are coming that have that dream of making this a place to be proud of.

00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:38.400
I don't think we can look at the predictions from the prognosticators.

00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:40.880
I don't think we should listen to the media.

00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:49.680
I think that we should look in our hearts and our spirits and our souls and our history and make it that what we wanted.

00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:55.519
Well, thank you.

00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:57.920
I'm proud to be a flat stone.

00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:09.440
Dr.

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Mona knew that the water was bad.

00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:17.759
She gathered all the research that she had.

00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:20.000
She released the study.

00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:21.920
That study is dead.

00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:26.319
All your little children have been poisoned with lead.

00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:31.119
Ain't like turpentine.

00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:39.759
Ain't like turpentine.

00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:26.880
It'll point to your children and lie to you.

00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:31.599
You can tell them the fact they'll still say they're right.

00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:34.400
Did not have a truth well.

00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:36.160
It's in flantide.

00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:41.039
Tastes like turpentine.

00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:49.839
Ain't like turpentine.

00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:00.160
Now people are chicken time.