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You're listening to the Mitten Channel, Michigan Stories, Michigan Voices.
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This is Arthur Busch, and we're at Radio Free Flint.
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Today my guest is Philip Weiss of Flint.
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Philip is an author of a book.
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Fragile Delivery is a book about Operation Baby Lift, which took place uh 1975 during the Vietnam War.
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Philip, tell us uh why you wrote this book.
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Hello there, Arthur.
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Thank you for having me.
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It's an honor.
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Well, I wrote the book back in 2012.
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Uh, it got to the point where I was collecting information and researching a lot of information about the baby lift and and about the kids who had uh went on with their lives post-baby lift.
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I just wanted to know what happened to some of them and and I decided since I was getting a little older, it's about time for me to get this book out before I l started losing my memory.
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But anyway, I went on and uh published it, self-published in 2012 on Veterans Day.
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You were in the United States Air Force.
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Correct.
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Well, yeah, I graduated from uh Flint Southwestern Heights in June of 1970.
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And of course, at that time the Vietnam draft was on, and I had a draft classification.
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It was pretty high.
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But I figured since I had to go, decided to enlist in the United States Air Force.
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November 2nd, 1970, that's it, that was my enlistment day.
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I left flat, flew into San Antonio, Texas, Lackland Air Force Base.
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That's where I started my basic training.
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And after basic training, I went to technical school, which is a medical training school.
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It's Shepherd Air Force Base, Wichita Falls, Texas.
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And after graduating from tech school, I was assigned to Lackland Air Force Base again as a permanent party.
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Anyway, he got me, he said, Phil, would you like to go to the Philippines?
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I said, sure, that's better than going to Vietnam.
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So anyway, next thing I know, I had orders to go to flight school at Brook School of Aerospace Medicine there in San Antonio, Texas, with orders after graduation for assignment to Clark Air Force Base, uh, Philippines.
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And that base was designed for uh aeromedical evacuation missions that took place all over Southeast Asia, including countries as such as Vietnam, uh, Thailand, other c countries, Japan, Korea, Taiwan.
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So I had missions all over Southeast Asia, and that's how I got to go to Vietnam.
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We and we would go to Vietnam two or three times a month, and of course we would get combat pay each time we go in there to airlift troops out of there.
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In 1975, there came a an order that you go to Vietnam.
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It was a controversial thing, wasn't it?
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Yeah, it was an unforgettable time for me because during that time the fall of Vietnam was pretty imminent.
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And we had heard that the Charlie, he called it Charlie, the North Vietnamese, they were moving down towards Saigon, getting closer and closer to Saigon.
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And at that time, uh civilian airline company called World Airways, which was contracted by the our government to make rice drops all over Vietnam and Cambodia Laos.
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This guy's uh owner of the World Airway was Ed Daly.
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Well, Ed Daley during his rice dropping runs, he would fly into Da Nang, make a drop, and then he would notice that there was a backup of people just gathering there at the airport trying to escape the Da Nang area, because Danang is like midway between Northfield and South Viet, Saigon.
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Anyway, Da Nang was becoming overfilled, overran with with orphans and refugees, and all trying to get to Saigon to get out of the country.
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So at that time, Ed Daly realized that something big was happening.
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All those folks that was trapped in in Da Nang needed to be airlifted.
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So Ed used his World Airway aircraft to airlift the first orphans out of Da Nang into Saigon.
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That was the unofficial start of Operation Babylift.
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And once that first load of kids were airlifted into Saigon, Ed Daly made a controversial airlift out of Saigon and flew one of his aircraft into Oakland, California, Presidio.
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He was unauthorized to bring those kids there.
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And that was the beginning of the Operation Babylift.
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So once President Ford found out about Ed Daly's baby lift run, he decided to get involved.
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That was on April 4th that he made a pronouncement that Saigon was about to fall and there was over 3,000 Amer- Asian orphans that were trapped in Saigon that needed to be airlifted out of there.
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So therefore, the first official Operation Babylift mission occurred.
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And I was on that mission.
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Of course, at that time, when I got word of me being on a mission, I was just about off duty.
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My duty hours, I was on an alert mission, which starts at 07, 0,700 hours one morning to 0,700 hours the next morning.
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So at 06:55 the next morning, I was allergic to fly.
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So I kind of didn't believe that I had to fly.
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So I went to my uh CQ charger quarters and called my squadron to verify whether or not that I've been alerted to fly, knowing that I only had 15 minutes left for duty hours.
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Not 15 minutes, but five minutes left for duty hours.
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So I called the squadron and said, yeah, Sergeant Wise, you've been uh alert to fly.
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So normally we keep our our bags packed for alert mission.
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So I had my bags packed, I called a taxi, and I had the taxi drop me off at the flight line, which is what's normal.
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So when we're I reached the flight line and I saw the aircraft that I normally fly on, which is a DC-9 Nightingale.
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It's a DC-9 with the red cross emblem on the tail of it.
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So I saw this DC-9 with the engines rearing, ready to taxi.
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So I'm running up to the aircraft, trying to catch them before they take off.
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So they stopped the aircraft and opened up the door and said, Sergeant Wise, what can we do for you?
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I said, I told them, I well, I've just been alerted to fly and it's supposed to be on this m on this mission with you.
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So, oh no, no, this is just a training mission.
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We're gonna go up and turn around and come back.
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So at that point, I was kind of feeling a little happy because I thought maybe I was off duty.
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So I ended up going inside the squadron, got inside the squadron building, and I noticed a very somber feeling all throughout the building.
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And no one knew exactly what was going on.
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But I I kept going to the control center, trying to find out if I was off duty or not.
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They said, no, well, just hold tight, Sergeant Wise.
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We're gonna assemble a briefing real soon.
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So maybe two hours passed, and by that time the wing commander, uh, base commander, they all assembled in the briefing room, and that's when we learned that uh President Ford had ordered Operation Baby Left and the Saigon was about to fall.
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To my surprise, uh, that we were not gonna use the DC-9 Nightingale.
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We were gonna use the C-5A Galaxy that had just flown in for Georgia.
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So we uh was all shocked about that.
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We had to learn quickly.
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We were shocked because our normal aircraft was the DC-9, which was designed for medical evacuation.
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I mean, we had an ICU unit on the aircraft, we had litter patients set up for transporting litter patients.
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It was designed for aeromedical evacuation.
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And the DC in the C5A Galaxy was a cargo aircraft.
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So what the commander thinking was that we're going, we were going to Vietnam and use our largest aircraft that we have to evacuate as many babies out of there as we could for the first first mission.
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And we were told that President Ford was gonna welcome these orphans to America because he was gonna meet us there at Travis Air Force Base, California.
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And our mission was to go into Saigon, pick these kids up, come back to Clark, refuel, and then fly into Travis Air Force Base, California.
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And that's how that began.
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Eventually, this plane was full of kids, and there wasn't an adequate kind of safety precautions on that plane that normally would take place in in a medical, in a plane that was suited up for kids that were in rough shape, and these kids are on the floor and other places.
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Well, well, what happened was there these kids there ate once we arrived at in Saigon, of course, we we would prior to landing, we went over what we need to do once we touched down in Saigon and who were working what sections of the of the C5.
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And I was uh my title was the senior medical technician.
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And my job was to assign other techs to work in different sections of the aircraft.
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So once we got to Saigon, we uh decided that we would uh load the infants first.
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And once we arrived there, we saw busloads of kids on the tarmac lined up to be uh airlifted out of there.
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How old were these children?
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What was the age range?
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Now the age range from two days old, one day old, one year old, up until early adolescent age.
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And we had to separate the kids.
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Now the C58 Galaxy was designed where the troop compartment, which is the passenger section, is upstairs in the upper level.
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And the lower level is the cargo section.
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So it's a two-tier aircraft.
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So what we did, we put the infants, one day old, up to three years old, in the troop compartment, upper level.
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And we placed them two per seat, two uh patients or babies per seat.
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And we had approximately 77 to 80 seats up upstairs with two children per seat.
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And the older kids, four, five, six on up, they were placed in the lower section of the cargo.
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And where we had placed military blankets on a cargo type on the floor, cargo floor, and we used a catwalk, which is seats along the parallel to the sidewall.
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And the litter patients and the older adults were placed on the floor.
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Now we had over 40 department uh at the defense attache office employees volunteering to help transport these kids back to America.
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So we had about 40 women that volunteered this service to help take care of these kids.
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And they all were down below in the cargo section along with me.
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Eventually the plane takes off.
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Correct.
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We uh we load it up, we get it, we get airborne.
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Approximately 15 minutes into flight, uh, we started having we had a problem.
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All of a sudden, there was a loud explosion.
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And when I looked back, me being on the bottom, I looked back, I saw the rear cargo doors and ramp rip off in flight at 23,000, 24,000 feet in the air.
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So I saw that going on at this at the time.
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I looked out, I saw that ladder that lead that leads to the upstairs to the troop compartment.
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I saw it dangling, just about ready to break loose and go out the rear end.
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But everything in the back that was placed there on pallets went out with the door.
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So I saw the blue skies, white clouds, and all the debris that was sucked out at the time.
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And that included people.
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Yes, that included people.
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And so at that time, we were in the midst of a rapid decompression.
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So everything was just being tossed about, and I heard a lot of screaming and yelling.
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Which meant there wasn't enough oxygen in the plane to support life.
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Correct.
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The oxygen that we had in the cargo went out with the doors.
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Unlike upstairs in the troop department, we were they had fallout masks, just like a commercial plane.
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And some of the news reports that I reviewed before I started talking to you today, it said that the masks that were available, many of them didn't work.
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Uh there weren't enough.
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People were falling out or you know, so a few of them didn't work from what I was told, but the the crew had to oxygenate themselves first and then give it to the kids because you know they would don the mass and give themselves oxygen, then give the kids oxygen until we got below sea level.
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Sea level was at 10,000 feet.
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So eventually the plane goes down.
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Now you gotta remember for us downstairs, we didn't have the fallout mass.
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We had walk around bottles, which were stationary.
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That meant you had to leave your position and go get them.
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So during the rapid decompression, we were unable to get any type of oxygen.
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The the pilot, once the rapid decompression occurred and the when the doors blew off, tore apart the hydraulics, helped navigate the plane.
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So you remember we were over the South China Sea at 25,000 feet when the doors blew off.
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So he tried to turn around and come back to the base.
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It's like at Ton Sunu Air Force Base.
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It's like on.
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Once we turned around and tried to make it back to the base, the pilot knew he couldn't make it because we were going way too fast.
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So he decided to try to bring it down in this rice field, rice patties.
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So what he did, descended down far enough where he clipped a tree line heading toward the runway.
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But it was too short.
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So he ended up clipping the tree line, and we bellied down on one side of the Saigon River, and we went airborne, once we bellied.
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We went airborne for about a quarter mile, and we just barely cleared the other side of the Saigon River.
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And that's when the aircraft started breaking apart.
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It bounced and bounced, and of course, the aircraft broke apart and debris was scattered for miles.
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Remember, we had people down below.
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So everybody downstairs didn't make it because we absorbed the impact, the initial impact.
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I was told that I was found hanging upside down, my left leg entangled and wired, cable wires.
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But you were still alive?
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Obviously, you were injured.
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Wanted to save my body so it wouldn't burn, yeah, because I was trapped in a burning wreckage.
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And they just thought they'll save my body so it wouldn't charge.
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And they got to untangling me and realized that I was still alive.
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And they untangled me and then they moved me to the area where you're showing this picture in a triage situation.
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So where they evacuated the most severe to least severe.
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So I was one of the first to be evacuated from the crash site.
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What was going through your mind?
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At that point, I think you described to some journalists that you were unconscious at one point.
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Yeah, at that time I was unconscious.
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I didn't know what was going on.
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I was only known what was told to me.
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But I was told that I wouldn't stay still.
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I kept trying to crawl back into the wreckage.
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And the doc and one of the pilot, Bud Trainer, he said he kept, I wouldn't stay still, and I was shivering because we remember we were in the rice patties where they fertilized the uh patties with all sorts of manure, caraba manure and stuff.
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So I had all these open wounds exposed to this bacteria-infested man area.
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And the pilot said I was shivering, so obviously infection was setting in.
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So he took a blanket off of a lady that he thought was dead.
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And we took the blanket off her and she opened her eyes.
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But anyway, I was eventually evacuated to the Seventh-day Infants Hospital there in Saigon and was treated.
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Now, Bud Trainer.
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Yes, Bud Trainer, he's he's uh he's he's my hero.
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He uh he brought it down the best he could.
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I was told at the time I was the only survivor that survived the lower level cargo section of that plane crash.
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And we only lost two babies in the troop compartment out of a nearly 180.
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I was told we lost nearly 100, nearly 200 people on that lower level.
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And then years later I found out there was a kid that survived in the cargo section who had suffered severe brain damage.
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At the state office volunteered, they all city seated on the floor, taking care of the kids.
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And every five years I go to Vietnam to honor my crew members who lost their lives on April 4th, 1975.
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And I received the Airman's Medal.
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The Airman's Medal was I was given for heroism during the fall of Saigon, the crash site.
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And that's General Carlton, four-star general.
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He escorted me off the parade field once he pinned my medal on.
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Yeah, I was in the hospital.
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I was released from the hospital to attend the ceremony to receive my medal.
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And after the ceremony, I went back to the hospital where I spent six months of recovery.
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They were so genuine and grateful for uh for us saving their lives and giving them a chance at a new life in another world.
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So it was rewarding and very emotional.
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Well, I mean we we we cried, we hugged and shed tears together.
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It was very powerful.
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It meant the world to me to and I felt like when I go back to the Vietnam Veteran Memorial Wall, I could share those stories with my 11 crew members whose names are on the wall to let them know that these kids' lives that we saved, they they really appreciate the sacrifices that were made.
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But we had a a baby lift reunion in St.
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Louis.
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And St.
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Louis has a St.
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Louis had a large Vietnam baby lift community there.
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So they had a reunion back in 2001 where I was invited to come there as a guest and as a guest speaker and share my story.
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They made a memorial.
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So everybody that goes to the crash site, that's where they'll like incense and say prayers, honoring the dead.
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Well, Philip, your story obviously is one that was covered by a lot of media.
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Uh, you've included some of these on your on your page.
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If people want to know more about this story, they can buy a book at Amazon called Fragile Delivery, Operation Baby Lift.
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There are other media outlets that has interviewed Philip and told his story.
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Phillip's uh story was told on 2020 with Hugh Downs in the day.
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Quite an interesting uh video.
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The listeners want to go back to listen to more about Phil's story and Operation Babylift, you can do so by going to his website.
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Not only are you an American hero who obviously sacrificed yourself for the lives of others and a chance to have a life, much less have a life in the United States.
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What was what was it about where you come from that gives you such courage and and such humanitarianism?
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Well, growing up in Flint, Michigan, it was uh on the south side of town.
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There was always activities going on, whether it was basketball, football, baseball, we we always found something to do.
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And I was right there in the mix every day, was playing horseshoes, playing basketball, football, and uh you just always was challenged within your neighborhood.
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Back then, only the throne survived.
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But you have a certain ethic of consideration of others and honor and duty to your country.
00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:54.720
I mean, those were things you must have learned in the world.
00:19:54.880 --> 00:20:11.920
Yes, you know my I was uh always a a type of person that liked to work, uh like cutting grass, senior's grass, or shoveling the seniors' snow, or going down the street to the Michigan Lumber Company, working in the sawmills, sweeping the floor at the lumber company.
00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:22.960
I was I was always there and happened to become good friends with one of the owners of the Michigan Lumber Company, and he sort of took me under his wings, Howard Owens.
00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:30.079
So uh he instilled on me in me a lot of good values that I took on with me to the Air Force.
00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:34.960
Now, you left the Air Force eventually uh after this incident.
00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:39.920
Were were you discharged for medical reasons or did you how did that come about?
00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:46.640
The Air Force retired me medically in in 1978 because of my injury.
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:48.240
I was severely injured.
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:58.000
So I got a medical retirement and afterwards I went to uh attended college after service and went to mock college and became a a nurse.
00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:01.759
And up that didn't work out well for me, so I ended up becoming a mailman.
00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:04.799
Even with my injuries, I still managed to deliver that mail.
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:07.039
I missed one day in 13 years.
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:08.079
Oh my gosh.
00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:11.119
Went into supervision and and management.
00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:17.440
As you look at your life, you look back on your life, you return back to your hometown.
00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:18.480
Yes.
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:23.599
I've you know, I've promised my mom that as long as I'm living, I'll be here for her.
00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:26.480
And she's 90, she'll be 93 this year this year.
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:32.720
And my fa my dad passed in uh 2018, but he lived to be 94, almost 94.
00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:36.799
But I promised my parents that I would come back to Michigan to be around for them.
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:41.200
The old saying, once a man, twice a child, so that it's their turn to be taken care of.
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:44.400
You you've shown what a great American actually looks like.
00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:46.160
Okay, thank you, sir.
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:57.599
And you should be proud, and I know your mother and your dad must have been really proud of you for all that you've done for not just our country, but for all those kids.
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:59.680
For the rest of your life, you've had this.
00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:05.039
And I must say, somebody like you is an inspiration.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:07.200
Philip, nice to meet you.
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God bless you.
00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:10.640
Just like to thank you for all you're doing.
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:15.359
Here in Flint, we appreciate you sharing the stories of our Flint tights.
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:16.720
We we really appreciate it.
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:18.960
We need to know more about our people.
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And God bless you for all you're doing.
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:22.480
Thank you, Philip.
00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:24.400
God bless you all, and take care.
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:27.200
This is Arthur Bush signing off for Radio Free Flint.
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:27.680
Thank you.
