Feb. 9, 2026
A Flint Athlete’s Journey From High School Stardom To Optometry
Remastered edition: re-edited and shortened for clarity and pace.
We trace Jeff Natchez’s path from Flint open gyms and sandlots to a **Detroit Tigers draft pick, rookie ball under a young Jim Leyland, and a second career in optometry. Honest reflections on choices, mentors, and coming home frame a story about resilience and community.
A Flint kid grows up in the city’s golden era, spends every spare hour on open courts and dusty diamonds, and learns how far grit can take you. That kid becomes a Tigers draft pick, rides the rookie-ball buses with a 26-year-old Leyland, and shares a field with future stars like Lance Parrish and Mark Fidrych. Then spring training delivers the phone call that changes the dream’s shape—and what happens next is the heart of this conversation.
We sit down with optometrist and former multi-sport standout Jeff Natchez to trace the full arc: Saginaw Valley showdowns with Flint Northern and Pontiac Central, the scout who believed early, and the surreal shock of patrolling right field at Tiger Stadium as a high school senior. Jeff opens up about the hard fork at eighteen—college under Bo Schembechler or a pro contract—and why hindsight suggests a different choice, even as the minors delivered priceless lessons in professionalism, poise, and preparation. The details are vivid and human: cold opening nights in Clinton, Iowa, clubhouse laughter, and the way Leyland handled teenagers like a steady metronome.
The turn toward optometry isn’t a retreat—it’s a reinvention. A long drive to Las Vegas sparks a plan, Ferris State University sharpens the craft, and a role in Reno with an ophthalmologist builds a second life anchored in precision and care. Jeff explains how the same fundamentals that defined Flint—accountability, mentorship, and access—shaped his work and his return home. We also honor the mentors who mattered, from playground supervisors who taught the basics to local legends like Rick Leach who showed what “it” looks like up close.
If you love Michigan sports history, underdog resilience, or stories about changing course with grace, this episode belongs on your list. Subscribe, rate, and review—and tell us: what choice at eighteen would you make differently today?
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Chapters
00:00 - Growing Up In Flint’s Golden Era
02:00 - Multi‑Sport Years And Valley Battles
05:00 - Draft Day And The Tigers Connection
08:00 - College vs Pros: The Big Fork
10:30 - Rookie Ball With Jim Leyland
13:30 - Lakeland Memories And The Bird
16:30 - Minor League Towns And Tales
19:00 - Tiger Stadium As A Teen
22:00 - Playground Coaches Who Shaped Us
25:00 - Lessons, Setbacks, And Resilience
27:30 - Choosing Optometry And The West
30:00 - Coming Home To Flint
Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:00.959 --> 00:00:02.879
Okay, this is Arthur Bush.
00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:07.360
We're at Radio Free Flint, and I have a great show for a change.
00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.919
Of course, all our shows are pretty good, but this one's gonna be exceptional.
00:00:11.919 --> 00:00:20.719
We have Jeffrey Natchez, who's a Flint area uh optometrist, and he has a great story to tell.
00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:23.519
So without any further ado, Jeffrey, welcome.
00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:26.640
Well, uh, thank you for having me.
00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:45.039
Jeff, uh you uh you were uh a Flint native and attended Freeman School, McKinley, Southwestern, and had uh quite a quite a career during that time in sports.
00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:53.200
Why don't you why don't we start there and and uh explain to the fan uh the your fans out there a little bit about that?
00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:59.039
So I grew up on Dearborn Street off of Atherton Road.
00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:04.159
Was a great place to grow up, great neighborhood, good kids.
00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:06.799
Parents took care of us.
00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:10.239
It was the golden age of Flint.
00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:12.719
The schools were outstanding.
00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:25.599
We had access to all the sports fields and the gyms, and we played ball from sunup until sundown, and it was just a great time to grow up in Flint.
00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:44.879
Now, Jeff, you were uh played several sports in high school, and I I remember going back that far in the class of 1971 that you played not just baseball, but you also played basketball.
00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:47.840
And I'm I couldn't remember if it was football as well.
00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:49.519
Football too.
00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:54.239
And you your position in football?
00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:55.760
Wide receiver.
00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:01.840
Okay, and tell us a little bit about your sports career in high school.
00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:07.040
So as a sophomore, I didn't go out for football.
00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:15.680
My junior high coach, Coach Williams, told me I was probably should just stick with basketball and baseball.
00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:20.240
He said I was too fragile and I would get hurt playing football.
00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.439
So I listened to him and I didn't go out for football as a sophomore.
00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:33.759
Played JV basketball until Christmas time, and then Herb McDaniel and I got called up to the varsity, and we ended up both starting on the varsity.
00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:40.479
And Herb actually was going to be inducted into the Greater Flint African American Hall of Fame this year.
00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:45.439
It got postponed because of the virus, but he was a great player.
00:02:45.439 --> 00:03:06.800
We weren't very good as a team as sophomores and juniors, but by the time we got to be seniors, we won the Saginaw Valley Division and we made it to the regional finals, got beat by Flinton, our great Flint Northern team with Tom McGill and Wayman Britt and Barry Menifee.
00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:15.840
We lost five games that year, and three of them were to Northern, and one of them was to uh Pontiac Central to IMA with Campy Russell.
00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:17.840
So pretty good competition.
00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:20.240
Did a Northern team go on to win?
00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:22.800
Didn't they win the state championship that year?
00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:23.759
They did.
00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:31.759
Actually, they played Pontiac Central twice in the regular season, and Pontiac Central beat him both times.
00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:39.520
The one at the IMA was packed, obviously, and Pontiac Central beat him by 33.
00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:44.400
And they didn't meet in the state tournament.
00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:58.479
They both made it to the uh semifinals, and Lindsey Harrison and Joe Johnson with Detroit Kettering beat Pontiac Central in the semis, and Flint Northern beat somebody else, and then Northern beat Kettering in the finals.
00:03:58.800 --> 00:03:59.199
Wow.
00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:04.639
Of course, Campy Russell, the great Campy Russell, went on to play at the University of Michigan.
00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:07.120
I I think he played professional uh basketball.
00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:08.080
Oh yeah.
00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:12.080
He probably played 10 years in the NBA, had a good career.
00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:14.159
Wow, that's amazing.
00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:18.240
Well, your basketball career was a lot of fun.
00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:34.240
I could see I could see the competition was certainly Flint style because you you played against some of the best, and with the best, Herb McDaniels, of course, was a terrific one of the better Flint basketball players in in our history.
00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:44.560
Jeff, you also played baseball, and that's really where you reached some pretty high levels for a high school kid.
00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:57.279
Why don't you tell us you were as I understand it, you were drafted in the sixth round by the Detroit Tigers, which made you the 134th pick in the amateur draft in 1971.
00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:00.959
How did that how did that all happen?
00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:07.759
Well, actually, when I was a junior, Bill LaJoy was a scout for the Tigers.
00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:11.040
He went on to become general manager eventually.
00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:18.560
He came to Flint to scout Mark Crane and Mike DeCou at Flint Central.
00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:24.800
And the game he came to, I just happened to, they happened to be playing Southwestern, and I was playing for Southwestern.
00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:27.839
And uh Bill LaJoy took a liking to me.
00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:37.199
And he followed me obviously the rest of that year and my senior year, and he was the main reason I got drafted.
00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:38.319
Wow.
00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:50.079
And so you know, I spend a fair amount of time in the winter watching the Toronto Blue Jays training down in Dunedin, Florida.
00:05:50.079 --> 00:06:06.720
And I listened to the coach, I listened to the scouts talking, and and there's been several times when we I got in the middle of the debates about whether it was best for a high schooler to go to college or or pursue professional baseball.
00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:09.920
Tell us a little bit about your thinking there.
00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:14.959
Well, hindsight's always 2020.
00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:26.240
If I had it to do all over again, I probably would have gone to University of Michigan or to Kent State University and played baseball and football.
00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:34.560
I was recruited as a wide receiver to go to University of Michigan to play football for Bo.
00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:44.079
And I ended up signing with a Tigers, so I never I never made it to U of M to play in the big house.
00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:53.680
Probably not a good decision, but you know, when you're 18 years old, that's a tough, tough thing to decide.
00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:56.560
You're not sure which way to go.
00:06:57.279 --> 00:06:57.920
Sure.
00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:05.759
And that year in the Major League Draft, you had some classmates who were also drafted by the Detroit Tigers.
00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:08.319
And why don't you tell us a little bit about that?
00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:15.120
So the number one pick that year was Tommy Veriser from Long Island, New York.
00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.680
Great guy, great athlete.
00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:24.319
Tommy probably ended up playing almost 10 years maybe in the big leagues.
00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:33.120
When I was when I signed with the Tigers, when I got to Bristol, Virginia, the rookie league, Jim Leland was our manager.
00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:36.399
And that was quite a quite a team.
00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:40.079
Bunch of 18-year-olds home away from home for the first time.
00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:42.720
And that was Jim Leland's first year managing.
00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:46.480
So it was it was pretty interesting.
00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:58.240
And Leland, of course, became the uh manager of the Detroit Tigers, and and also he was the uh manager of the Pittsburgh Pirates, uh as I remember.
00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:06.480
And I think didn't Leland win win a World Series championship with a Florida team?
00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:07.439
Was it a Florida team?
00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:13.920
I want to say Marlins, maybe 1997, maybe.
00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.079
I might have the year.
00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:17.519
Go ahead.
00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:18.560
I'm sorry.
00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:21.120
I might have the year wrong.
00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:26.000
But is Leland in the Hall of Fame?
00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:39.440
I don't think he's there yet, but you would think with the amount of wins that he accumulated over the years, you you probably think he might get in at some point.
00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:40.799
Yeah.
00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:44.399
Now, Jeff, what was it like playing for a guy like Leland?
00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:49.679
I mean, he's a guy that's he's kind of a player's coach, as I understand it.
00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:52.240
He was quite a character.
00:08:52.240 --> 00:09:00.559
He was only 26 years old, and he was trying to babysit a bunch of 18-year-old kids, so it was it was quite a time.
00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:07.360
I've got some few a few stories, but probably can't tell all of them on camera.
00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:26.080
I remember one incident where we were we stopped at a truck stop to eat, and when we got back on the bus, bus drivers started pulling away, and the the police came and blocked the bus.
00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:46.399
And of course, you know, the manager sits in the front row on the right there, and it was and Leland gets off the bus and talking to the policeman, and about 10 minutes later, here comes Leland and the policeman, and they walk back through the bus and they they get Mo Horton, who I believe is related to Willie Horton.
00:09:46.399 --> 00:10:06.240
I don't know if it was they were cousins or Mo was a nephew or whatever, but turns out Mo forgot to pay for his meal, and that didn't go over too well, and they ended up taking Mo off the bus, and we never saw Mo again.
00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:07.279
I'm not sure.
00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:15.440
It seemed kind of a stiff penalty for just uh hot lunching up, but you know, that's what happened.
00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:17.440
What was it like to play?
00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:19.919
Uh you ended up playing in Lakeland.
00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:26.159
I played, excuse me, I played twice in Lakeland.
00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:32.080
I played in uh 72 for the first half of the year, and then in 75 I played.
00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:37.360
That 75 team had Lance Parrish on it, Mark DeBird Fidridge.
00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:42.399
I'm probably leaving off a couple other guys, but what was Fidridge like?
00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:44.799
He was a great guy.
00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:55.679
Hey, he all they wore was a white t-shirt, cutoff blue jeans, and low top converse purple tennis shoes.
00:10:55.679 --> 00:11:00.320
And Lance Parrish and I had a had a difference on that.
00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:03.679
He he said they were high tops, but I'm pretty sure they were low tops.
00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:06.080
But great hard worker.
00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:07.840
You saw him running all the time.
00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:13.600
He's in great shape, he had really good stuff, but he was he was just a normal guy.
00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:17.759
He wasn't off the field, he wasn't the bird, he was just Mark.
00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:27.519
But yeah, he I believe the next year of 76 was his 19 and 9 year, and and the city of Detroit fell in love with him.
00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:28.720
No kidding.
00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:30.639
Talking to the baseball, that's what I remember.
00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:32.639
He talked to the baseball before he threw it.
00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:33.600
Amazing.
00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:37.279
He did that, he did that in when I knew him as well.
00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:38.799
That's crazy.
00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:42.320
And so, how long was your minor league career?
00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:46.720
I played until the spring of 76.
00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:50.639
I got released in spring training in 1976.
00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:52.000
I see.
00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:57.120
Now you played not just in Lakeland, but I I assume you played in another city or two?
00:11:57.759 --> 00:11:59.840
I played in Clinton, Iowa.
00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:06.080
I played in Anderson, South Carolina, and then I played in Bristol and Lakeland.
00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:08.159
Wow, Clinton, Iowa.
00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:10.320
That's that's a hot spot.
00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:12.879
That was interesting.
00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:23.200
I was just talking to my wife the other night about this because uh we were talking, it was snowing outside, and we were saying it's baseball season and it's snowing.
00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:38.159
But at first night in Clinton, opening night, it was 32 degrees because I remember I had a turtleneck on, and then another shirt, and then my base, and then my baseball shirt, and it was cold.
00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:51.679
And actually, a guy came out of the stands and streaked across the outfield and shimmied up the flagpole, and then stood on the top of the fence and jumped over.
00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:54.799
I remember that was opening night in in Clinton, Iowa.
00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:05.120
We don't generally associate Clinton, Iowa with uh streakers climbing the flagpole at the at the baseball game.
00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:17.679
Uh Jeff, uh you eventually you're one of the few major leaguers that probably made it to Tiger Stadium before he got drafted, right?
00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:31.120
I my research says that that you had a chance to play as a senior in the high school all-star, Michigan high school all-star game, which was at Tiger Stadium.
00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:38.399
Technically, technically, it wasn't an official all-star game.
00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:48.399
It was a a collection of high school kids that Bill LaJoy recruited to play in Tiger Stadium.
00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:56.399
And there was, it was it was an unreal thing for me growing up being a Tigers fan, got to play right field that day.
00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:05.360
We we actually played two games, and I I just put this on Facebook a few days ago when Al K Line passed.
00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:15.279
It was kind of surreal for me because I was roaming around the outfield where Al K-Line, you know, had been, and still was at the time.
00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:24.799
And I I was kind of awed by the whole thing, and I didn't really look around to pay attention to where the wall was.
00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:34.720
And in the top of the first inning, I was playing right field, big left-hander, left-handed hitter came up, and I just knew he was gonna hit the ball, you know, to me.
00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:45.039
And sure enough, he yanked one down the right field line, and I went flying over and uh ran right into the wall and full speed.
00:14:45.039 --> 00:15:06.480
And luckily, the wall was only waist high, so I went flipping over the wall, banged my knee up pretty good, and didn't realize that I hurt my toe as well, because when I got home, I took my uh or when when we got out to the car afterwards, I took my shoe off and uh my toe swelled up really bad.
00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:18.720
And it was just about a week before football season started, so I was a little bit worried that I was gonna get in trouble with Coach Jobson for being injured in a baseball game, but it it healed up okay.
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:27.679
But yeah, it was Gary Mays from Carmen also played in that game, and he he pitched on the other team.
00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:30.240
I we got to I got to bat against him.
00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:44.960
And unfortunately, Gary at that point had hurt his arm, so he what he he he lost a little bit on his fastball, but when he before he hurt his arm, he could really bring it, and he was a great hitter as well.
00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:47.120
So just that that was fun.
00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:50.799
That was in but that was right before we started our senior year.
00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:52.480
Oh, amazing.
00:15:52.480 --> 00:16:00.639
And Jeff, uh you honed your skills on the playground, pretty much.
00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:12.320
I was reading something you wrote the other day that talked about playing at uh Freeman School and McKinley School as a kid.
00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:17.759
Uh tell us tell us about that experience and what you thought of that.
00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:21.679
Well, just a memory or two, if you can.
00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:24.720
I remember pitching.
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:28.559
I I could throw it pretty hard, but I had no clue where it was going.
00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:32.080
So the guys were a little bit leery to step in there against me.
00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:34.000
Scott Taylor was the catcher.
00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:42.000
And one year, one or two years, I remember that Paul Krause was our uh supervisor at Freeman.
00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:51.200
And he was about 6'4, and you know, of course, we were little guys, he we just really thought he was something else.
00:16:51.200 --> 00:17:00.399
And every once in a while, somebody say Paul hit hit one, and somebody pitched one to him, and he was a left-handed hitter, and he would jack them.
00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:12.720
There was a parking lot out in right field, and he would, and then there was a tr a bunch of trees beyond that, and he he would jack them up into the trees, and we were just kind of awed by him.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:14.799
He's an amazing guy, isn't he?
00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:16.799
Let's let's explain a little bit about him.
00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:24.640
He he became an NFL legend, really led the uh NFL in all-time interceptions.
00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:27.920
I think that record might still exist.
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:30.240
I I think you were right.
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:37.599
He was a fabulous athlete, arguably the greatest all-around athlete to ever come out of Flint.
00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:43.039
You know, you'll hear some different names, but he gets mentioned quite a bit along with Rick Leach.
00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:48.400
He also played baseball, I think, at Iowa.
00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:53.599
And I've heard stories about how great a pitcher he was, but he also hurt his arm.
00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:56.319
And back then they couldn't fix arms.
00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:00.240
So, you know, he that that pretty much probably what led him to football.
00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:14.079
Now, another guy that another guy that supervised you in the summer months, and the rest of the the fellas was Fred Carroll, who was longtime uh teacher in the Flint School District.
00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:15.119
You remember him?
00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:17.200
Oh yeah, he was a great guy.
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:18.559
He's left-handed.
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:25.680
He used to play in the Flint City League, he was a pitcher in the Flint City League, but he was a great baseball guy.
00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:35.200
He he taught us all the fundamentals, and so we were by the time we got to Southwestern, we were we knew how to play the game.
00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:36.720
That's right.
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:52.640
Well, my career in baseball ended on that field at McKinley when I was playing in the summer, and there for some reason I usually played catcher, but your friend of mine, Scott Taylor, went to to baseball camp.
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:57.839
You two went together, as uh as I later understood.
00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:01.680
That was that was quite an experience.
00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:02.960
I'll never forget that.
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:04.880
It was it was a great time.
00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:07.519
It was Ted Williams baseball camp.
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:11.920
I want to say it was in Lakeville, Massachusetts, but it was somewhere in Massachusetts.
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:16.400
And Ted, we never saw Ted.
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:20.960
Ted no, Ted never showed up, but anyway, it was a great, great time.
00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:27.839
There was a guy there named Eddie Wakis, who I believe was one of the Philadelphia Wiz kids.
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:36.559
He showed me how to play first base, and we would play some of the local high school teams.
00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:42.160
And I remember one day, you could only, if you were a pitcher, you can only pitch so many innings.
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:45.599
So the guy said, Well, who can pitch?
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:46.880
Who can fill in and pitch?
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And I offered to pitch.
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So they let me pitch.
00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:54.720
Scott Taylor was catching, and I threw a no-hitter.
00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:58.000
And so that was pretty cool.
00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:00.720
Then about a week later, same thing happened.
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:17.519
And unfortunately, that game I walked 13 guys, which is really hard to do because the the main thing with that is the coach or the manager, he's got to leave you in there for you to walk those 13 guys.
00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:21.599
You would think at some point they'd come out and say, Okay, son, you've had enough for the day.
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:25.440
But yeah, and Scott Taylor had to had to go through that too.
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.039
Can you imagine catching a pitcher that's walked 13 guys?
00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:36.720
Yeah, I did I've done that in the park at Wendy Eight in my neighborhood in the south in the Flint.
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:53.279
But I remember you two fellas coming back, and all of a sudden you left and you were at one level, you were here, and when you came back, you were like way out here in terms of skill and and growth as baseball players.
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:56.880
Jeff, I'd like to switch bases here in just a minute.
00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:05.519
One of the things that you grew up with in Flint was the community school system, which you've described earlier as golden years.
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:14.079
What was it about Freeman School which which made you think it was the golden years?
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:18.240
And what was it that they did that that really gave you a boost?
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:23.920
I remember I think they had a thing called Teen Club.
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:37.119
A guy named Charlie Montpass had an organization called the Flint Olympian Club, which basically we would do all kinds of sports activities.
00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:40.559
He'd take us bowling, he taught us how to box.
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:45.119
We had access to the gym whenever we wanted to.
00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:54.799
We always, if we wanted to play, there was always a place to play, either on the baseball field or in the gym.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:59.440
Bob Callis was instrumental in my life.
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:04.400
I remember at hit when you had gym class with Mr.
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:05.359
Callis.
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:17.279
His rule was when he blew the whistle, you throw all the balls towards the office, and then he would put them in the office, and then you go take your shower, and then you go to your next class.
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:26.240
And one day I was shooting baskets and the blue the whistle blew, and I didn't, I just kept shooting.
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:30.000
And so he blew the whistle again, and I kept shooting.
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:35.119
And finally he called me over to the office, took me in the office, and gave me a couple SWAT.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:35.680
Oh.
00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:39.359
And yeah, that that was okay to do that back then.
00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:44.720
And that that was a lesson for me.
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:48.400
Like, son, the the world doesn't revolve around you.
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:53.279
You know, you you're pretty good in sports, but you're you gotta follow the rules, you know.
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:57.759
And he lit me up pretty good with that paddle, and I never did that again.
00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:07.200
Jeff, I know one of the things that we you know, we work with young people I have over the years.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:26.319
And sometimes sometimes it isn't always the lessons in life where you're the champion, where you end up you know uh bringing home the trophy, so to speak, whether it's in law or whether it's in athletics.
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:33.519
It's how a person deals with that disappointment.
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:36.000
Sometimes it's even the agony of defeat.
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:42.960
You know, you see young people who've lost the game and they you know they go into a tailspin.
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:58.640
In your case, you had a dream to become a major leaguer, and you didn't make that dream come true, but you've had some terrific experiences both in athletics as well as in your professional life.
00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:02.240
And I'd like to know I'd like to ask you this question.
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:09.119
What what did you do to make that transition and tell us what that transition was?
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:23.599
So when I got released from the tigers in the spring of 76, it was like, okay, now what do I do the rest of my life?
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:32.640
I knew that I could go back to school and you know get a degree, but it was like, what do I get a degree in?
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:47.359
It just so happened that in fall of 75, one of my teammates, Tommy Thompson, and I drove to Vegas to visit some friends in Vegas.
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